ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 I think I should not buy the cheap stuff and wait untill theres enouth money to by some decent mac250's or somthing simliar. The mac250's are quite good and easy to clean and service. Just out of intrest (off the topic), what are the pearl river 250's like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 It's worth noting that the A Level devised piece doesn't give any marks to the performers for the lighting, and even people doing the lighting option are not expected to have any real in-depth knowledge of lighting. The technical options are simply there to give those candidates who cannot/will not act some method of getting grades. The examiners are not technical people, by and large - so their technical expectation is quite low. There's no doubt that lighting can improve people's acting grades, but the lack of it is not penalised in the mark scheme. There are some really well equipped centres with excellent resources, but they are in the minority, and judging by the numbers of under 16s who are the only technical person in the school, few actually give technical any serious consideration. This has changed this year for whatever board we do at our school. Students have to send a written concept to the examiner at least a week before the exam. This outlines among other things the mood they wish to create and any effects that they will be using. The lighting can be added into this and then I have to try and recreate what they have asked for. Its very different from last year where I could basically do what I wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 My old college had some Mac 250s, and I bought a couple of Pearl River 250s in 2004. They were actually quite ok, a bit noisy, mechanically, but these can be serviced in the UK - I've also had a couple of their follow spots and they got a bit , er, damaged and they fixed those too. So out of the various Chinese brands, I quite like these. They're in a flight case at the college, and due to having no technical support, don't, as far as I'm aware never get used because nobody knows how to program them. Sad, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 They're in a flight case at the college, and due to having no technical support, don't, as far as I'm aware never get used because nobody knows how to program them. Sad, isn't it. Yes, Its a shame people waste kit, when it can be put to much better use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I'll repeat again because I know it to be fact - DO NOT buy cheap budget 'disco' type lighting effects for anything other than a disco or night club. Regarding design & grades. There are opportunities for students to be graded on lighting design, I don't know how or why, that's what the teaching staff worry about! Last year one of our students designed, with great help from our (just retired) very talented Head Of Drama, the lighting for 'Royal Hunt Of The Sun'.The result was quite honestly outstanding, to my mind it would give the West End a run for it's money! Not a single intellegent fixture to be seen, other than the Frog it was programmed on. The only animated lighting I recall was fire, which was acheived by a couple of outrageously heavy, back-braking, ugly, unpleasent, 40 year old Strand Fesnesl with equally awful glass wheels precariously slotted on the front. Probably my least favourite bit of theatre lighting I've come accross However, they acheived the desired effect, something an intelligent fixture could probably not do.The rest of the rig consisted of motley collection of newish Selecon profiles, Selecon fresnels, and a few older Strands (Harmony type) on a mere 24 channels of Betapack2 that had to be balanced 'cos 1 pack trips if it gets remotely close to trying hard :** laughs out loud **: I bet the student wouldn't have scored as well if he'd used a bunch of Mac's to produce the stunning colours and effects that he managed with ONLY generics B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I think I should not buy the cheap stuff and wait untill theres enouth money to by some decent mac250's or somthing simliar. The mac250's are quite good and easy to clean and service.Ben, I'm sorry to sound rather blunt, but are you not reading anything that's being posted on your topic?? To quote Bobbsy on the previous page...If your school has all the generics you could want and you still have the available budget to buy pro quality movers...AND you have the budget and personnel to look after the movers....then by all means go for it. However, this utopian world rarely exists and generally, the best advice is stick to infrastructure spending and rent quality movers on the rarely occasion you need them.This is pretty much the summation of all the recommendations from those with experience (both in schools and out) so why are you adamant that you need to buy in movers for your school....???Because all the evidence seems to point to these being just a toy to play with on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 This is pretty much the summation of all the recommendations from those with experience (both in schools and out) so why are you adamant that you need to buy in movers for your school....???Because all the evidence seems to point to these being just a toy to play with on occasion.Yeah, reading through the pages in this discussion, I can now see that there is no need for movers. the thing is our venue isn't the most "pretty" looking venue in the world! and it would be nice to add some effects to brighten it up. maybe I should consider buying some led par cans for somthing like that? and spend some money getting some more dimmer packs and adding extra channels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 This is pretty much the summation of all the recommendations from those with experience (both in schools and out) so why are you adamant that you need to buy in movers for your school....???Because all the evidence seems to point to these being just a toy to play with on occasion.Yeah, reading through the pages in this discussion, I can now see that there is no need for movers. the thing is our venue isn't the most "pretty" looking venue in the world! and it would be nice to add some effects to brighten it up. maybe I should consider buying some led par cans for somthing like that? and spend some money getting some more dimmer packs and adding extra channels?Yes!Definitely invest in some more (decent quality again) dimmer packs. A job lot of LED par cans would be a good option for a school and these could very well be the budget variety. Although again not as a replacement to a decent generic rig, but as an enhancement. Budget LEDs are great for eye candy or washing small set pieces, and in the right circumstances as backlighting.But also look at a rolling plan to add reasonably priced generics like the Acclaim range which can give you more options in the future. Small additions could be things like gobo holders and a selection of simple breakup gobos. Throwing a couple of pairs of nicely pointed/focussed breakups from upstage is a simple and cheap option to give you nice beams through haze.You do have a haze machine, yes? Because if not then you are limiting some of your lighting options (though by no means all). Other small things that often get forgotten are ample 15A cables to get power to the lamps when you need it in a location that doesn't have a dimmer outlet. Grelcos for doubling the lanterns from one circuit. A selection of useful colour gel to a) give you a bit of variety and b) keep those you might have as 'standard' up to spec. The list is endless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 Yes!Definitely invest in some more (decent quality again) dimmer packs. A job lot of LED par cans would be a good option for a school and these could very well be the budget variety. Although again not as a replacement to a decent generic rig, but as an enhancement. Budget LEDs are great for eye candy or washing small set pieces, and in the right circumstances as backlighting.But also look at a rolling plan to add reasonably priced generics like the Acclaim range which can give you more options in the future. Small additions could be things like gobo holders and a selection of simple breakup gobos. Throwing a couple of pairs of nicely pointed/focussed breakups from upstage is a simple and cheap option to give you nice beams through haze.You do have a haze machine, yes? Because if not then you are limiting some of your lighting options (though by no means all). Other small things that often get forgotten are ample 15A cables to get power to the lamps when you need it in a location that doesn't have a dimmer outlet. Grelcos for doubling the lanterns from one circuit. A selection of useful colour gel to a) give you a bit of variety and b) keep those you might have as 'standard' up to spec. The list is endless.... Thankyou, that helps alot. And yes, we do have a haze machine. I like the idea of upstage lighing aswell, with some broken gobos that could give quite a good effect. At the moment we have four ETC 12 Channel Smartpacks, and actually we could do with some more as we are running out of channels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Just found one of your quotes in a different thread I dont see any need for led wash moving heads, unless you're in a really big venue. As I've said above...I find the washes far more useful - or is this only in relation to LEDs? I was wondering if you could also clarify whether you will be staying on at the school once the install has finished as this will make a big difference. Your profile has your employment as "null" and yet you talk as if the venue is one you will be working in permanently. As you can see from the discussion a lot of peoples opinions are that movers are OK once lots of things are in place, one of which is a permanent technician! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Your profile has your employment as "null" and yet you talk as if the venue is one you will be working in permanently.This is a very valid point - completing your profile accurately and fully will help us a LOT in a number of ways.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 As I've said above...I find the washes far more useful - or is this only in relation to LEDs? (on that thread) This was only in relation to the LED wash moving heads, because the wash you get from them is so large, I cant see why people would use LED moving heads unless they have a large venue. I was wondering if you could also clarify whether you will be staying on at the school once the install has finished as this will make a big difference. Your profile has your employment as "null" and yet you talk as if the venue is one you will be working in permanently. As you can see from the discussion a lot of peoples opinions are that movers are OK once lots of things are in place, one of which is a permanent technician!Steve Yes, I am a permanent technician/stage manager at the school! Should I put that I used to work in a local theatre peviously aswell? I must of forgot to fill in those bits when I registered! I will update them now! Ummmmm...... How do I update them!!!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 At the top left of the screen you will see the words: "Logged in as ben-collins". Click on your username and it will take you to your profile. Select "edit profile" from the menu and make the edit. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-collins Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 DONE! I've updated my details! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Speaking as a school theatre technician: We have 2 well used second hand mac600s. They work grand 99% of the time, and as a reasonably experienced electronics tech I can fix them myself. We also have 2 cheap tourwashes (I can hear people shuddering already!). They've never been reliable, they've recently returned from a full service with maintenance at AC and this week one has developed a new fault. I can't seem to trace it and they're not too well known in the industry so I don't have a mate who knows the things inside out. (AC - I will be phoning soon, once exams have gone). Don't buy cheap movers. They often don't have a true dimmer channel and they can't be easily serviced. They will be a pain in the proverbial for the rest of their time until they end up in a skip, and there will be much gnashing of teeth. If you're going to buy movers, buy proper brand name stuff. Everyone knows how to fix them, your desk will have the right fixture profiles for them and everyone will be happy. Another point to consider is that it is rare that the movers see use unless I'm behind the desk. Think how often you will use them and whether it may be more cost effective in the long run to hire as and when you need them.Our movers do see a fair bit of use, mostly as repositionable, colour mixable washlights. This can enable me to get a lot of varied states out of not much rig for exams and showcase performances. Finally, movers can cost a LOT more to relamp than generic stock. Make sure this is taken into consideration and is budgeted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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