Brian Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 A bit of science... An adult human skull can fracture with an impact force of 100 joules. 100 joules is represented by a mass of 1kg falling 10m, 5kg falling 2m or 10kg falling 1m. So, a lightweight lantern, like a PAR64 which weighs around 3kg, can fracture an adult skull on a drop of around 10 feet. In fact an adult skull will self-fracture when dropped around 4 feet. Figures for children's skulls are much lower. I'd love to see anyone use those facts in a risk assessment to justify using cable ties as primary suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Firstly there are occasions when a cable tie or ties are the only solution and I have used them in these occasions and never had any problems at all, if you are worried put some bigger ones on or more little ones. Please, please tell me your joking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 It's not big and it's not clever. Your Employeer has a legal responsibility to provde a safe environment. By using cable ties to suspend a fixture, you are not doing that. If he's insistant on doing it, then don't be involved, and maybe forward the case to the HQ. I think I will pop into the store here and have a nose. It'll be another thing to list in the phone call to HQ along with the inability to provide basic customer service and answer phones. I must admit it doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Foster Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 If something did go wrong, as well as all the legal implications, there is also the possibility that you would have to live the rest of your life knowing that you have killed or seriously injured someone, Even if it wasn't "legally" your problem. All because someone couldn't be arsed finding/wouldn't pay for some proper rigging equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh lordy Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hello, Where have you guys been all your lives?Is it ok to suspend steel wired armoured from a tray with 'cable ties'? Go into any venue and I think you will find the answer to be yes. Thats doesn't weigh anything I suppose. I am not saying you should hang a mac up with cable ties. Birdies or short nose par can maybe depending on the situation. As for method statements you would have no problem hanging the said above equipment if there was going to be no one stood underneath or able to axcees where they were hung. Oh Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 All because someone couldn't be arsed finding/wouldn't pay for some proper rigging equipment.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not to mention the fact that they actually sell clamps and safety bonds (a fiver to buy one of each at their retail prices) in their catalogue! Little DJ - know exactly where you're coming from re customer service. Two years ago they lost my order, and refused to send out another until their courier had returned the original to them! Their solution: go to your nearest Maplins, spend a fortune in petty cash and a couple of hours picking out the 200-odd items again (the store wouldn't pre-pick them for me, even if I reserved with a credit card), and when they track down the missing box, they'll look into a refund! Sadly, they're still a bargain one-stop-shop so I've found it hard to avoid using them (though I wouldn't go near them if I needed something in a hurry!) since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gallente Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 People walk under it, yes. Thank God tomorrow is my last day there, and when I go in, I'm going to print this conversation off, show him, then take all the lights down, and tell him if he wants them up there like that, he can do it himself.....that is ofcourse if they haven't already come down today :( I could do with some feedback of if people have seen this in there local stores aswell, so I can find out if its just my shop with an odd manager, or if its being done in all our stores. Im planning on concating my regional manager, and talking to him about it, and if he dosnt arrange for some better equipment to be sent out, then il go higher. I may be leaving tomorrow, but as it was said, if anything happens I dont want to feel guilty about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwell2004 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 well I have been into my 2 local stores yesterday and today and I have to stay these were hung with proper clamps and safety chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim_mcslim Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 hmmmn cable ties.... excellent point about attaching cble to cable trays with them.... I would be quite happy to do it, well I have with pin spots and par 56's equally I would be happy to rig macs with cable ties, aslong as they where 15mm wide or wider and yes I would use 4!!!! but I don't ever see a need to do that!!! using cable ties can get the lights closer to the bar/truss which in a low height room can be beneficial - the last time I did it was in a marquee to light a band. I am hardly advocating it as a verified rigging method, but there are times I think it has its place, but saying that I think shooting people has its place in the world too... paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh lordy Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hi, What are we worrying about if you shop in Maplins you deserve all that is coming to you!!! Oh no Oh Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Alcock Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Speaking purely hypothetically now, but what if safety bonds were being used as a secondary means of suspension. Would that make it OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 JUst a thought from someone who hasnt touched a luminaire in anger for some time, but how, if your rigging with cable ties, do you reliably focus etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 its maplins and they are little mojo scans and stuff- no need really is there! Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Ahhh fair enough then :( Believe it or not I have once seen a Barco flown with cable ties off a scaff bar supported on a pair of Manfotto windups. Twas a 600 series model which if you know your Barcos will tell you how long ago it was. There was no danger to the public but even so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mush Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I`m gonna hang around down Maplins keeping these peoples number handy... http://www.claimsdirect.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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