Rigging Lights With Cable Ties...

[gallente]

Another Update. Went into my maplins today. They havent, from what ive been told, done anything about it, the lights are still up there with the cable ties, and no order for any clamps have been made. Its funny because one of the other employees said to me today 'theyve been up there like that for a good 2 years, and they havent come down yet'....WTF???? thats even worse!!!! Thats like saying 'Hitlers not a bad person, he didnt kill anyone for a few years of his life, so nothings wrong with him'. I couldnt believe he said that. But Oh well, im gonna get intouch with my regional manager and see what he says. His names Joe Hurles incase any of you want to make a complaint aswell. As far as I know he is incharge of the london area.

[jagardner1984]

Make a note of any response he makes to you, as this could form important evidence if you have to take the complaint further.

 

As well, try and make a formal WRITTEN complaint, as it is more difficult for them to deny a letter, send it recorded, and mark it private and confidential. That way they can't say - I didn't get it.

 

James

[Just Some Bloke]

I e-mailed Maplins Customer Services with a link to this thread asking for their comments. I received the following reply:

 

"I have passed this information onto our sales director who is going to investigate this further with the store in question and he has also passed this to the regional managers, for them to check their stores."

 

 

Who knows, we may have saved someone from being hurt! let's hope so.

 

JSB

[Light Console]

Very interesting!

1 - I was in my local Mapins yesterday (Southampton) and saw some lights on a stand in the window held up with ties. I would have said something to the lad on the till, but there was a huge queue and I guessed they wouldn't see the problem.

This was before I knew about this thread.

2 - As I understand it cable ties can only be used for six months as an install in a theatre had to be redone into cable tray, where the cables were then tied to it, but not supporting them!

3 - What is the SWL of a standard hook clamp? I ball park 10Kgs. I also have some wonderfull BBC hook clamps with 200lbs stamped on them for larger kit!

[Stu]

What is the SWL of a standard hook clamp? I ball park 10Kgs. I also have some wonderfull BBC hook clamps with 200lbs stamped on them for larger kit!

My 'Z-shaped wingnut' Doughty ones have a SWL of 40kg. I presume the older ones might be a little lower due to their age / construction but not by much I'd guess.

 

Stu

[Ike]

popped in manchesters oxford road maplins a couple of days ago and found all there lanters to be riged with cable ties (above pedestrian routes and emergency exits!), I also found them not to have a clue what they were talking about when it came to cable, connectors and anything remotely electrical

[Just Some Bloke]

popped in manchesters oxford road maplins ... found them not to have a clue what they were talking about when it came to cable, connectors and anything remotely electrical

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Maybe you'd got the wrong Maplins and had mistakenly walked on to the set of Hi Di Hi :(

[oh lordy]

Hi,

 

So it seems that many Maplins stores use cable ties to hang there lights. Would love to see how many claims have been made agianst them for ones which have fallen off.

 

 

hmm interesting!

 

 

Oh Lordy

[gallente]

wow this thread is really having an effect....just not on the right people. Im gonna pop back into my old store on my lunch break and see whats been done, or if theyve heard anything. this could get interesting!

[paulears]

I've watched this thread with some amusement. The theatre world has electrical and mechanical safety issues as a sort of core feature. People do get hurt in theatres and similar places and the authorities watch out carefully to make sure standards are followed. Retail is completely different. Sure, the same standards apply, but for some strange reason, the focus of any inspections is very different. The Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act is likely to be the only official document pinned up apart from the insurance certificate, and the average shop manager knows very little about anything else. Talking about SWLs, LOLER, (or any .....er regs) is going to go woosh.....

 

The fact that many Maplins have similar set ups probably means these systems were probably put in by the shopfitters, not Maplins and the fact that none have fallen down yet, to them, means there isn't a problem and any member of the public mentioning it is going to be marked down as an interfering idiot. If the carpet is sticking up, or there is a sharp edge to something, they'll get it sorted straight away. A nylon tie holding a light - even if it fails, the cable will catch it! (won't it??)

 

I'm not condoning what they are doing, but I do understand what is happening. Risk assessment at shop floor level will mainly be a paperwork issue - having something in the filing cabinet, in case anyone asks. Most of these will be dangers that have really happened. People tripping, electric shock, crush injuries, back injuries - the sort of things customers frequently sue for.

 

In the real world - people just don't do this sort of risk assessment properly. Everyone knows it, and nothing changes. My guess is the local managers won't make any trouble, or even mention it to the regional managers - not wishing to be tagged as a troublemaker.

 

If you do a mtbf of a fitting falling, spread accross all their branches, for the number of years the 'dangerous' practice has been in place, then despite the unavailable load rating, there seems to me to be enough evidence to suggest the risk is not as great as we think.

[jagardner1984]

The previous post is very interesting - I used to work in a supermarket. I never saw a risk assessment. People loading deliveries on roller cages were pulling them up ramps and around the store (against manual handling) - and no-one was wearing steelies. It seemed quite foreign to them that it might be worthwhile giving staff, some as young as 16, manual handling training for regularly lifting loads in excess of 20kg - despite the fact that I pointed out this left them really exposed to prosecutions relating to RSI's etc.

 

In retail, I have found there is shocking negligence. I suspect that the head offices do risk assessments - and they mail them out to store managers - and a few may keep a file of them, but I have worked for the above supermarket in 7 stores and I have never once seen any enforcement of any health and safety regulations.

 

I would be very cautious about wholeheartedly blaming the store managers though - I suspect the law would be slightly less understanding - because it is hard to underestimate the amount of pressure that these managers are under to reach targets. Broadly speaking, the people I have met are vewry poorly paid, and have very little job prospects.

 

Not a justification, but the whole culture needs to be looked at if we are to understand what is wrong with the system - and how we can understand it and work to change it.

 

James

[oh lordy]

Oh James,

 

The world would probably be better place with you as our health and safety officer.

 

Maybe you could write a book and how to live our lives safely.

 

Health and safety is important but most of this should be self governing to an individual. The world has to give us some acceptance that we can make our own decisions about how we live our own lives wether at work and play. We all I am sure go over the speed limit in our cars or run across the road quickly infront of cars. We are well aware of the risk but still we do it. That is very human nature.

 

So live your life James stop worrying about to may other people, we are all big boys and can look after ourselves!!!

 

Oh Lordy

[Mush]

Oh James,

 

The world would probably be better place with you as our health and safety officer.

 

Maybe you could write a book and how to live our lives safely.

 

Health and safety is important but most of this should be self governing to an individual. The world has to give us some acceptance that we can make our own decisions about how we live our own lives wether at work and play. We all I am sure go over the speed limit in our cars or run across the road quickly infront of cars. We are well aware of the risk but still we do it. That is very human nature.

 

So live your life James stop worrying about to may other people, we are all big boys and can look after ourselves!!!

 

Oh Lordy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh Lordy, You are a troll and I claim my £5

 

Ensuring the public are safe on your premises is the duty of everyone connected with those premises, its not optional.

 

Sincereley hope never have the misfortune to risk my neck in any premises that have any connection with you or other people who demonstrate a similar attitude.

 

No one expects to take a risk going into the shop, its not motorsport, there are no signs saying " Shopping in Maplin is dangerous, customers enter at their own risk"

 

Earlier point was made about practices used in a shop such as Maplin then being copied by others, it increases the statistical possibilty of someone getting brained by a 8Kg disco light quite substanially.

[paulears]

hmm.... It is of course possible someone did a risk assessment and concluded using ties on light weight kit is safe. After all, it would be simple to rig one and test the strength. Assuming you achieved an acceptable safety de-rate, then there may not be a problem.

 

Safety is important, but we all do bad things, from time to time. How many people put a bond on gel frame holders. Most older kit doesn't have a top clip, or full length runners. tilting too much could let it fall out (been there, got the ticket). Cloths flying out taking frames with them - is this more dangerous than nylon ties?

 

Visiting a retail outlet and expecting them to work to our standards is pointless. The typical shop just isn't that advanced in safety procedures.

 

I have to agree with Oh Lordy - Remember Mary Whitehouse? Had opinions about things that were out of touch, but almost everyone said it was a good job someone like her existed - as long as she kept out of their own business!

[jagardner1984]

Dear Oh Lordy,

 

I have no desire to be the World's health and safety officer. At no point have I said that we should deny people's free will and choice.

 

Everyone with a few brain cells, including (believe it or not) me, knows that breaches of various pieces of health and safety legislation occur. Broadly speaking, people seem to find what they can and cannot do, rather than what they should and should not do. It would be wonderful if there was compliance with every piece of legislation throughout our lives. The reason governmental organisations spend time and money on regulations and rules is in response to commonly perceived workplace hazards, and reported accidents. There is no benefit in just irritating professionals in whatever industry. The rules and regulations and guidance is laid down for a reason.

 

Some of the rules we like, some of them we don't. What I was referring to in my post was 16 year old children working part time in a store being told to lift loads in excess of 20kg. They had no training, and were lifting in particular ways that WILL cause damage to their bodies in future years. Whether any of them choose to take the store to court is completely irrelevant, but they would have a very good case if they did.

 

To make the argument that, it is a supermarket and they work to different standards is as absurd as it is dangerous. For the reason that I mentioned above. There is just as much chance of a store worker rolling a roller cage over their foot as a TSM doing a fit up. This is why the regulations apply to both. What is a disgrace is when people are put in danger because they are not implemented. When I was 16, I was pulling a roller cage (wrong), up a ramp (wrong), wearing no steel toe cap shoes (wrong), and I pulled the cage which was overloaded with bottles of coke over the end of my toes, very lucky not to break or crush them. The boss told me to sit down for a few minutes, before I returned to the checkouts to continue work. There was never any accident form filled out, nor do I believe that it was ever a consideration.

 

Do I want to control everyone's health and safety?

NO

Do I believe that all of the health and safety regulations are followed in all industries?

NO

Do some of the health and safety regulations annoy and frustrate me?

YES

Should they be followed, or at the very least attempts made to follow them?

YES

Why?

Because people like me when I was 16 years old, will continue to put themselves in danger because they are not aware of the dangers, or have had no training to recognise them.

 

I firmly believe that Health and Safety Regulations are written in a way that no-one will be fully compliant, the vagueness in their wording will see to that. But they are safety standards that everyone SHOULD aspire to, and have plans in place to implement.

 

A venue in East Croydon that have not done plant safety checks on their shackles, but used and therefore visually inspected them last week - well it shouldn't happen - but does, and is barely on the scale in terms of risk to public or employee safety.

 

A school in Hull, which allows 14 year olds up a tallescope and rolls them around in the basket, poses a very significant risk to that child, and for those around them.

 

Neither of these should happen, both probably do. Obviously the latter is an extremely dangerous situation. So I am not foolish enough not to recognise why certain checks that regulations are not implemented, nor do I regard all breaches as the same, but I do emphatically disagree with the following statements:

 

Health and safety is important but most of this should be self governing to an individual

 

Visiting a retail outlet and expecting them to work to our standards is pointless. The typical shop just isn't that advanced in safety procedures.

 

And Oh Lordy, it is precisely because I do want to live my life, and not be scraping my colleagues off the floor of the theatre, or driving them to hospital with broken toes, or meeting them in thirty years and they are bent over double because of the damage to their back, that I care about this issue.

 

James