Guest lightnix Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Calm down now, everyone. I've been trying to stay out of this one and I don't want to stir things up. I have mixed views on this, obviously I'm not going to hang an entire rig of Source 4s with cable ties - that would be silly. On the other hand I have rigged birdies with ties on several occasions in the past, all without mishap. Any remote risk that two cable ties might simultaneously fail was minimised with the addition of a small wire safety bond. No, I didn't like doing it (it makes them a pain in the bum to focus), but I don't feel it was "dangerous". Somebody asked ages ago if adding a safety would make it OK. I don't recall there being an answer given, but I would like to know. My guess (and it is a guess) is that having identified the hazard in the RA, you could then produce a method statement showing that you have minimised the risk with the addition of suitable, load tested safeties. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Having seen first hand some of the crazier things that people do to get a show going, I'm all for improved standards of H&S, but there are an increasing number of instances where over-cautious measures are being taken to prevent injuries which have never occured and are very unlikely to. The original poster referred to "lanterns" being hung with cable ties, without specifying what they were. Did we ever find out? I don't have time to trawl the whole thread right now. If you do get around to contacting the store in question, try to be positive. Make suggestions rather than criticisms, that way they're more likely to take notice of what you say and act on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gallente Posted November 13, 2004 Author Share Posted November 13, 2004 Did you actually read the first post? So what do you all think about this? weve got some Geni movers, like Mojo scan and mojo spins, stuff like that, when I was rigging them up, they didnt feel like the cable ties could take there weight so I put a few on. There not little birdies or anything like that, there pretty heavy things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Oops my mistake, although I stand by the "spirit" of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Somebody asked ages ago if adding a safety would make it OK. I don't recall there being an answer given, but I would like to know. My guess (and it is a guess) is that having identified the hazard in the RA, you could then produce a method statement showing that you have minimised the risk with the addition of suitable, load tested safeties. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My guess would be taht as you have said as long as the safetys could take the weight then they would be fine however you would want to think about putting two on as the point of a safety is to provide an alternate means of suspension if the priamary one fails Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 To bring up a minutely-old topic, I went into my local Maplin today to get some 2-way PMR radios (Hey.. they're on special offer) and I had a quick look at all the Scanner's and disco lights rigged on the trussing and I'm happy to say that they all had G-Clamps and were Safety Bonded too. Woo-hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronHorn Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Went to Sound Control in Bristol the other day, they have a rig of par 64s rigged with cable ties and 13A plugs (IME they tend to come out of the socket easier). Although they were just above head height I should think if they dropped on someone then they will leave a nasty bruise. Also the can's arm was pretty warm and if they were left on over night one day I am sure they could get hot enough to weaken the ties. Its also worth considering that as they are within reach, it is possible for someone to catch something on them while carrying for example. As for the guy talking about roll cages, where I work they are pretty hot on that, lots of leaflets/videos telling you how to move the things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 it does occur to me that there is probably more chance of something falling off the above head height shelves at our new B&Q than the cable ties failing on a par64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Essentaly there is a risk to everything and although none of us here would do rigging with cable ties they clearly feel that its ok. I would assume that all the nesecary risk assessments have been done if they haven't then obviously its wrong. Although its not quite in the same area but im sure that other industrys would frown upon what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 If you want to see complex risk assessment where it REALLY matters, look at the North Sea gas/oil exploration companies. Safety out there makes what we do look silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mush Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Matter of interest a Mojo Scan weighs in at 7.7Kg http://www.articulight.com/il/mojoscan1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Thats what im saying we fly people which in some terms could be seen as absailing. There RA's are different to our's I can almost see a oil rig worker starting up in the theatre and takeing in a sharp intake of breath and saying 'oooo not like that'. I must admit that with the claim culture you need a compleate insurance cover and and over the top RA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYLASER Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 If you want to see complex risk assessment where it REALLY matters, look at the North Sea gas/oil exploration companies. Safety out there makes what we do look silly!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> When I was in the merchant navy (a few years ago now), we were not allowed to use hoovers or toasters until we had attended a training session and had been issued with a certificate of competence. This applied to many other types of machinery as well. but these were some of the sillier ones. We also had fire/emergency drills on a weekly basis. How often do you have those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I have to say that some of the safety regs have annoye dour site manager quite a bit (at school). "All christmas lights must be safety checked by the site manager" Now if we take him a bit of electrical kit to test "Yeah its safe""Don't you want to at least know what it is before you certify it?""Nah s'ok... its safe..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Thats what im saying we fly people which in some terms could be seen as absailing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> FLY PEOPLE! Flying people is nothing at all like abseiling. Abseiling relies on the skill of the abseiler to control decent - it's also a one way process - i.e. down. Theatrical flying relies on someone else controlling anothers height, in most cases with no additional safety line. Unless properly trained, with the correct equipment, flying people can be incredibly dangerous. If done the correct way, an amazing technique. From the artistes viewpoint, the word TRUST comes to mind. If I was going to be flown, I have quite a few colleagues past and present, who I would not want on the other end, in any circumstance, ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I did a year on the railways. Simillar, but probably not quite as stringent as the offshore industry. I hadn't done the training for the hammers. So I didn't use the hammer. Pissed me right off, as I'm a vary hands on person. EVERYTHING was risk assessed and Method Stated. We couldn't step near the track if there wasn't a RA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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