LED vs Discharge

[DjSwirl]

WOW that did spark a response, thanks guys for all your input. In short I am going to stick with discharge lamps.

 

Brian

 

I know somebody selling some 250s and 300s in good nick for about £500 each if interested.

 

I am waiting to hear back from another suppler on some prices of some other units, if that falls through then I will give you a shout, do they come with flighcases?

[Ynot]

However, LEDs are pretty useless for actually lighting stuff up. If you want to illuminate a person or an object from 10 metres away, good luck with an LED...

Actually, these days, that's not necessarily true.

But bear in mind that as in all things, all LED gear is not created equal...

 

There are some VERY nice looking LED fixtures out there, and not all of it is necessarily at the top end budget wise.

 

As I stated in a not too distant topic back, we've recently had funding to invest in fixed LEDs for our venue, and whilst we're not using them from 10m away, I'd say that the side lights aren't that far off. I've used (not just rigged them) the Mac 101s and I'd say that for the size of lantern these are a cracking little mover. Not yet used the 350 but will be doing so some time this year and am confident (based on reports from others who have) that they'll be outperforming the Mac 250s in many ways.

 

I've also seen various other LED movers used at my other theatrical 'home' - it's been a while, so couldn't tell you what they were on that occasion, but they were certainly larger than 350s, and were VERY impressive from a darned sight more than 10 metres up!

[bigclive]

Keep in mind that the original poster was looking for lights for weddings and small functions which are inevitably going to involve a shorter throw than a theatre or big-gig scenario. The LED lights would probably have ample throw in the desired situation and would also help reduce power requirements too. Hopefully maintenance would be lower as well, with the absence of a white-hot quartz tube blasting out intense heat and UV light in the close vicinity of electronics.

[Brian]

... to involve a shorter throw than a theatre or big-gig scenario. The LED lights would probably have ample throw in the desired situation ...

Except the unit he linked to only has a 15 degree beam angle which at short throws means a small coverage area.

[Judge]

All LED manufacturers are making bold claims about light output. And when you see modern devices you almost certainly go "WOW - that is bright"

Indeed - but lets talk about the quality of light. Much harder to pin down but you know it when you see it. Modern LED fixtures such as Martin 101 and Robe 600 are ALMOST at a state where you can use them for lighting people with - but I would still rather use a discharge lamp. Actually I would rather use a Source 4 but they do not move.

Here's the other thing - LED units look nasty when looking into them, as opposed to a fresnel lens and that is a tough one to get around technically, although I-Pix have had a good stab at it with their BB range.

So if you want Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.!!! Sooperbright - the LED may be the way to go. If you want a lightsource that is versatile then I'd go with discharge. However it going to be tough to convince the beancounters of this. After all, LED units are cheaper to make, cheaper to run, and in theory should be cheaper to run since they contain fewer moving parts.

[Owen Radmore]

Hi

 

Was also looking at replacing our 250w discharge with LEDs although not necessarily moving head

 

We are looking at something with greater light output but also something that doesn't weigh a ton

10kg or less.

 

Throw required of 5m

 

Beam Angle 25 deg

 

After looking at quite a few possibilities

 

We Were looking at:-

 

Elation Lighting Arena Par 90 x 3w leds website

 

MJ Light fx LED Par 108 x 3w leds Website

 

isolution Stage Wash 90x3w website

 

Would appreciate any comments

[SSRlighting]

Hi All.

We have some of the Martin 101's they are great little thing for what they do, we use the more for audience impact etc. We used them on an awards show not so long ago and they where great.

The client was impressed anyway so that's the main thing. We have also used them for lighting people, and spotting people at a specific point in a song. With every thing else off one from behind and one from the front they worked well, and over all they did a good job. BUT I would still recommend using a discharge lamp for this job. I have found that when working with clients on a tight budget they can be very useful. The one thing I do really love about them is there speed and when you have a row of 16 and point them at the cowed it makes people go WOW.

I am not overly impressed with the mac 350 at the moment. Still feel that martin have a bit more work to do on them. I am not quite sure that LED's are ready for a profile light at the moment.

I do have one client that loves the 350 and has used them on theatre shows over the last few months, he has replaced the 550's and 575's he used to use for them.

How ever I personally will be waiting a while before I look at buying any more LED profile's.

It is only a matter of time before on of them hit the nail on the head with it!

[tom_the_LD]

I'm now going to say something which may spark an interesting response. Chauvet.

 

Their new LED Q-Spot 260 moving head profile is actually very good IMO. We've done a direct shout out next to a 250 Krypton and it just blows it away. Yes I realise it's a slightly narrower beam angle (15 degrees and not 20 degrees), but it really is much better. Especially on the colours. It has a 60 watt LED in it (the same Phillips LED that VL use) as well as 2 gobo wheels (in comparison to just 1 on the Krypton). Slot 'n' lock gobos too which is a bonus!

 

They're also a heck of a lot cheaper than a Krypton to buy - looking at prices on "Google Product search" just for a ballpack figure.

 

If you're near Dunstable I know someone who's got a load and could give a demo, or if you're not see if Chauvet will give you a demo. When you consider a 250+ is £625 from used lighting, and these are around £850 list, they're certainly a very interesting unit!

[Ashley R]

Tom has brought up an interesting side to this LED vs Discharge debate. The DJ world.

 

A lot of manufacturers that target Dj's have jumped on the LED bandwagon and some are coming out with some pretty impressive fixtures!

 

E.g.

ADJ X Scan LED Plus (20w LED) will knock a Martin MX-4 out easily (its also got more features, and much lighter!)

Chauvet Q Spot 260 (60w LED)will murder most MSD 250/2 fixtures (As tom has said), and there are plenty of copies of this fixture coming out of china (albeit missing the slot and lock gobo feature) for under AUD $400 I think last time I checked.

Eternal Lighting Premier 120 (120W LED) I've been told will give a MAC 550 a run for its money, and getting close to a MAC 700, but I have NOT seen this fixture in person so have nothing to back this up with.

 

All of these fixtures are significantly cheaper than their discharge counterparts and require less power. They use exactly the same technology as a discharge mover (Starting with white light and filtering it) with colour wheels etc. etc. but for output they are certainly getting there!

 

But just had a quick look all 3 fixtures I have mentioned have all got relatively narrow beam angles around 15deg.

[timsabre]

It has a 60 watt LED in it (the same Phillips LED that VL use)

 

It's not the same, the VLX uses an RGBW LED made by Luminus Devices, the Chauvet unit uses a white only.

[niclights]

It has a 60 watt LED in it (the same Phillips LED that VL use)

It's not the same, the VLX uses an RGBW LED made by Luminus Devices, the Chauvet unit uses a white only.

Indeed. And they are 120W (limited to 90), not 60. Interesting comments nontheless.

[James Remo]

I had A dozen GLP spot ones at Glastonbury, was very impressed with them, good output, great gobos, usable zoom, the iris was a little disappointing but then I wasn't on my preferred desk so I couldn't really compare like for like in terms of the effects I was using. They stood up against the robe 700 washes we were using quite well

[SSRlighting]

We have used the LED Q-Spot 260 in a local venue. They worked well TBF the only thing I was not to keen on the build quality of them, this might only be me but I just felt like they would not stand up to been on the road very well?

[rossmck]

I have a few Showtec Indigo 4500 (A rebadged LED Q-Spot 260) - in the interests of full disclosure I also sell these products - that are flightcased in the standard showtec cases and they've survived a fair bit of abuse. The build quality isn't on par with a Mac 250 Entour (which I also own and have been able to do a side by side comparison) but they're also around 1/4 of the price..

 

For the cost they're very good entry level movers, if a little noisy, mine have just come back from being in one of the smaller tents at a large scale music festival where they were used all day, all night, by many different operators in a damp tent and they were very well received :)

 

If anyone locally wants to borrow them to try out - let me know by PM or something, I've also got some of their RGBAW LED wash lights which are pretty bright and, unlike most budget kit I've used before, actually dim relatively well. These have also been moved, abused and shipped the length of the country several times (not in a flight case either) and one of them has a small crack in the casing - easily repaired and wouldn't have happened in a flight case.

 

I agree completely that the offerings by Showtec, Chauvet etc are not on par with ETC, Martin, Clay Paky and Robe but they're aimed at a different market and if you're looking for some decent moving heads on a budget for smaller stages they're well worth considering.

[tom_the_LD]

Tom has brought up an interesting side to this LED vs Discharge debate. The DJ world.

Again, something interesting you mention here. The DJ World. When we hear product names such as Chauvet and Showtec we often think of that. But I think that some companies, certainly Chauvet with the "pro" product line are trying to shake that reputation - I mean we all know how often Sunstrip Actives are used!

 

When I first saw the Chauvet against a 250 Krypton (we had the 2 by 2 side by side) I really did want to hate it, and aesthetically yes it's not great, but in terms of performance it did blow me away. I think if Chauvet keep on this trend then in a few years (if build quality changed perhaps) then Martin/Robe/VL could have some competition. Another example - their Tri-Tour Colorado wash. I think they're brilliant! Powerlock in and out for easy linking, great for floorcans, great flown, really bright, great colours and great build quality.

 

Are fixtures such as the Q-Spot 260 meant to be toured? Course they're not, whereas Mac 250's moreso are. However, like everything, if they're flightcased and are well looked after and maintained I think they'll provide a long life to the buyer - but then only time will tell.

 

I mean, didn't Martin originally enter the market by making disco stuff?

 

It has a 60 watt LED in it (the same Phillips LED that VL use)

 

It's not the same, the VLX uses an RGBW LED made by Luminus Devices, the Chauvet unit uses a white only.

Ah my mistake. Apologies!