Doug Siddons Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Personally I would much rather do without a snare mic than hat mic if push comes to shove. Snares tend to be so loud they get everywhere anyway but its the pattern played on the hats and kick which gives the groove in my opinion. As to bass mics if you've got something its a belt and braces thing though once set up have never had a di box fail mid set, can't say that for bass amps but with a di you still have the bass sound. I also prefer to have the di clean and use the bass mic to add any effects said bass player is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete10uk Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 is there any particular reason why bass amps have DI out on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 So that you can get a feed that includes the effect of the built in eq, the effects loop and the amp itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 He always has used a DI because he says it gives him far more "control". What is the opinion on that?Nine times out of ten a DI is just the ticket. Its when you get a bassist with an Orange 120 and two 4x12s and he plays like a guitarist with full overdrive that the mic makes all the difference. But if the bassist is (and I don't mean to be rude here) just a bassist with a clear sound then I'll usually pop the DI in between his bass and his amp, so the compression and EQ that is applied is my choice rather than the bassists. The EQ in particular, the bassist is EQing to sound to his taste with his cabs, which are generally going to have very different frequency response characteristics to a PA. Occasionally you get a bassist with whom you can have a reasoned discussion, someone who understands both ends of the snake, and that can make for a great night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addoaddo Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think there is a big difference between mixing for a festival and for a normal band. Choice of microphones and set up is very much determined by the time available to change from one band to another. In this short time compromises have to be made. The main focus is to make the band sound good. If one snare mic is good enough is can save time plus as there is normally not a sound check it is less to have to set up during the first song. Obviously if more time is available and more microphones are available you have a chance to lift the sound above “good”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think the opposite is true for festival shows. Just to give this a bit of context, I'm currently mixing foh at decent sized European festivals, 20,000+ audience, 30 minute changeovers. Ordinarily, I am quite happy to mix with minimal gates, maybe none and I'm quite happy to drop channels if needed. At a festival show I want all the gates patching in (Kik1, Kik2, Sn. top & bottom, toms.) Here's why... Given a soundcheck, you have the opportunity to adjust mic placement, retune drums properly and a hundred other time consuming little things to make the noise leaving the stage closer to the one you want to come out of the PA. Festivals don't give you that luxury. To some extent you are pushing faders and hoping for the best, if the snare top doesn't sound snary enough then whether you like using snare bottom or not you are going to be thankful you have the option because it might be your saviour for the next 40 minutes. Same applies to bass mic, the extra guitar lines or the ride mic you never thought you would need. If I go through the show with the gates bypassed and half the faders down I'm pleased and lucky. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Listen to Peter, he talks alot of sense. In fast changeovers it is inevitable that things might not go according to plan. If a bass player plugs straight into the amp instead of the DI, or they plug into the wrong amp if there's more than one up there. Having a mic infront of it, or having the ability to run and throw a mic infront of it is a wonderful thing. I also agree with over micing things for festivals, I do festivals from all 3 angles, I go there as a house engineer (either end), I go to them as a guest engineer (either end) or I go as a musician, and its interesting to see how different people from the other 2 angles work. You don't HAVE to use all the channels you're provided with. A show I did Saturday night as a guest engineer, all be it on a different stage at a festival I was working as a house engineer at, provided me with a range of options for most of the instruments. I had a 906 and a 57 on the guitar, I had a 91 and a b52 on kick, a b57 top and bottom of the snare, a separate ride mic, an atm35 and a beta58 for sax, and a DI for bass....... the bass mic for some reason didn't work, even though it had for the last 20 bands, out of all of the things I could have REALLY done with it as the DI feed was bad, sadly the impact of doing a run onto stage outweighed the sound so I had to live with it. Options options options when there is no time, To turn it around to something slightly unrelated, the idea of having IEM and a pair of wedges is a very similar thing. IEM's are wonderful if the mix is right, if it isn't they are better dangling down your shirt so you can hear the stage. I've done many a gig with my "ears" hanging down on my shirt as the monitor engineer has...... shall we say, not been all that good, and it's good to at least have a pair of wedges to fall back on, even if they too are rubbish. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew B. Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Rob and Peter are of course right but their budgets are probably some multiples above the original poster's one. I would like to say that the SM58, while it is a standard and perfectly predictable/ decent sounding, is a long way off being the best live general purpose dynamic vocal mic IMO. When I do festivals the vocalists get Audix OM5s which almost always sound better than 58s and have the additional advantage of great isolation from stage noise where the stage is loud and/or small. The only problem with the OM5s is that they cost more than the 58s and their pickup pattern is quite tight, so if you get a singer with bad mic technique then they can drop in level quite noticeably. Where I have an acoustic guitarist who also sings I might go back to a 58, since they tend to position themselves a bit further back from the vocal mic than their electrified cousins... Also, am I the only one that thinks serious singers should bring their own mics with them? Most of them don't. I had one girl who brought her own mic windshield with her for hygiene reasons, which she would slip over whichever mic was provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 As Andrew says its all a case of what is there and what you can ask for. and then your experience to make do and mend in the time available without upsetting anybody. Just veering off topic for a moment why is it that every outdoor gig in the summer is called a festival? Going back to the original question I would just add a generic drum mic set from Thomann or studiospares or Red5 , a D112 or E604 to your existing stock, use 58's for vox 57 for cabs. Whilst we can argue the toss about the best vocal and cab mics that fact is it is very rare for musicians to reject a 58 and IMHO it is always best to keep all your vocal mics on a stage the same if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 and IMHO it is always best to keep all your vocal mics on a stage the same if possible.Realy? surley if youve got the choice its better to pick the mic to suit the voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 and IMHO it is always best to keep all your vocal mics on a stage the same if possible.Realy? surley if youve got the choice its better to pick the mic to suit the voice If you have time yes, if its a chop and change situation like a festival I prefer not to have to guess which mic is where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I also like having something visible to identify the mics at a distance. Coloured foam or tape have helped me before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley1466 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 and IMHO it is always best to keep all your vocal mics on a stage the same if possible.Realy? surley if youve got the choice its better to pick the mic to suit the voice If you have time yes, if its a chop and change situation like a festival I prefer not to have to guess which mic is where. I agree with Doug here. If you're touring with a band, yes this is of course a good option. However, in a festival situation it's surely best to have all the same vocal mics on stage as all of the bands will be different? Unless a band bring their own mics of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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