Radio Mic Batteries

[Jivemaster]

Shez

YOU will get on fine, modern rechargeables have greater capacity than some disposibles. you will manage the recharge cycle, you will not accidentally discard the rechargeables. All because you care to do it right.

 

In a general venue with touring noise people daily the chance of a good use and recharge regime is too small for satisfactory use.

[chelgrian]

 

I am astounded that you would say that £9600 could be just absorbed I'll bet you haven't told whoever is in charge of finance

 

You don't understand, this is many different companies who are only in the house for a week at a time each production will have its own team, budget and financing and arrange their own hire etc.

 

I would love to know where procells can be bought for 80 p can you tell us who your supplier is

 

Farnell admittedly with a discount, even without a discount they are 90p + VAT in quantities of 250 or more.

 

eBay they are made in all standard sizes and are fully protected against over charging and shorts and are just as safe as NiMH cells

 

...eBay... You trust the safety of your building to eBay. Plus the chargers you have are *NOT* the problem it what happens when someone who isn't you puts them in to a charger not designed hor LIoN.

 

This is why nowhere reputable sells them in standard sizes in the UK.

[Ian Cunningham]

Looks like Autograph are using Fischer Amp batteries and chargers. Having had a look at their products, there's a rather striking resemblance to Ansmann products, of which I have a good charger, tester and some batteries. Does anyone know if one is just a different badge for the other? Did one take over the other? Is one a cheap rip-off of the other?

If they're deemed to be good enough for Broadway / WE shows, I might try a couple of sets during my next couple of musicals and see how I get on...

 

The Fischer Amps range is pretty much re-badged Ansmann products and this is no bad thing.

 

I used to run the NiMH PP3 Fischer Amps batteries in the rackmounct charger for my Senn G1 Evos with decent results (>4hrs runtime).

These were replaced withe IPower-US LiPo batteries with complete sucesss.

 

With basic battery management rechargeables should be as good as alkalines.

[fincaman]

I am astounded that you would say that £9600 could be just absorbed I'll bet you haven't told whoever is in charge of finance,

No, I think you have the wrong end of that particular stick.

 

As has been said, for long running shows in the same venue, OR for touring shows with a dedicated small noise team who can instil an effective regime of proper management and charging of mic batteries, I can see that decent rechargeables can certainly cut the battery costs as you suggest.

 

he problem comes when you consider fixed venues with multiple shows coming in, be they pro tours or - like my venue - a wide variety of amateur organisations. With that will be the inevitable raft of different noise boys (and gals) all of whom will have the interests of their 'own' shows in mind, and thus MAY not be too worried about the next ones through the door. (And believe me I've seen the "I'm alright Jack" attitude in the past from both am and pro crew). So the prospect of the next crew coming in and finding dead rechargeables is potentially much higher.

 

That, plus the fact that each company using our venue's mics gets charged for the batteries they use means that essentially the cost of powering the mics is covered each time regardless. So even if all our 14 mics were in use all week every week, WE, the venue, would not be out of pocket because of that.

 

I agree but for every venue like yours there are 10's of thousands of clubs,churches, church halls, schools, am dram groups etc etc all of whom I am sure would welcome the fantastic performance and cost savings Li-ion batteries can give, even if they did forget to charge them once they still could use them the next night or service or even six months later and don't forget you can easily keep dare I say it !!! a few normal batteries around for emergencies. I find it strange that I am getting to quote the old Guinness advert "I haven't tried it because I don't like it" attitude and I suspect that most of all of the negative comments I am getting come from people who have never tried li-on PP3's.

[Ynot]

I agree but for every venue like yours there are 10's of thousands of clubs,churches, church halls, schools, am dram groups etc etc all of whom I am sure would welcome the fantastic performance and cost savings Li-ion batteries can give, even if they did forget to charge them once they still could use them the next night or service or even six months later and don't forget you can easily keep dare I say it !!! a few normal batteries around for emergencies. I find it strange that I am getting to quote the old Guinness advert "I haven't tried it because I don't like it" attitude and I suspect that most of all of the negative comments I am getting come from people who have never tried li-on PP3's.

Er, who said that I haven't tried them? Or any of the others that are arguing the case against rechargeables as the one and only solution? You're making a rather bold assumption there...

 

I think you need to re-read what's been said!

 

I happily recognise that in the right circumstances, with a properly managed regime of recharging, yes ANY type of rechargeable batteries can be a workable solution.

 

BUT in many other situations, the option is NOT so practical. In theory, yes, ANY venue MIGHT be able to manage the options, but it isn't always possible to guarantee, and that's where standard cells pay off as the better option.

[fincaman]

I am astounded that you would say that £9600 could be just absorbed I'll bet you haven't told whoever is in charge of finance

 

You don't understand, this is many different companies who are only in the house for a week at a time each production will have its own team, budget and financing and arrange their own hire etc.

 

I would love to know where procells can be bought for 80 p can you tell us who your supplier is

 

Farnell admittedly with a discount, even without a discount they are 90p + VAT in quantities of 250 or more.

 

eBay they are made in all standard sizes and are fully protected against over charging and shorts and are just as safe as NiMH cells

 

...eBay... You trust the safety of your building to eBay. Plus the chargers you have are *NOT* the problem it what happens when someone who isn't you puts them in to a charger not designed hor LIoN.

 

This is why nowhere reputable sells them in standard sizes in the UK.

 

Yes I do trust EBay because most of the things you can buy are the same things you buy on the high street but direct and less expensive and you have money back guarantees from PayPal, the one company I can find in England selling Li-on PP3's are charging double the price. Lion PP3's are fully protected against over charging and short circuits so there would be no problem if put in the wrong charger. Don't forget my opinion on this subject is based on using six Li-ion PP3's for a year. I suspect the people who oppose my view HAVE NEVER TRIED Li-ion PP3's so are speaking hypothetically. It surprises me that people working in a technical industry would dismiss a new (ish) technology without even trying it

 

I agree but for every venue like yours there are 10's of thousands of clubs,churches, church halls, schools, am dram groups etc etc all of whom I am sure would welcome the fantastic performance and cost savings Li-ion batteries can give, even if they did forget to charge them once they still could use them the next night or service or even six months later and don't forget you can easily keep dare I say it !!! a few normal batteries around for emergencies. I find it strange that I am getting to quote the old Guinness advert "I haven't tried it because I don't like it" attitude and I suspect that most of all of the negative comments I am getting come from people who have never tried li-on PP3's.

Er, who said that I haven't tried them? Or any of the others that are arguing the case against rechargeables as the one and only solution? You're making a rather bold assumption there...

 

I think you need to re-read what's been said!

 

I happily recognise that in the right circumstances, with a properly managed regime of recharging, yes ANY type of rechargeable batteries can be a workable solution.

 

BUT in many other situations, the option is NOT so practical. In theory, yes, ANY venue MIGHT be able to manage the options, but it isn't always possible to guarantee, and that's where standard cells pay off as the better option.

No I didn't say you haven't tried them I said "I suspect that most of the people"but if you have tried them I would love to know what mah rating they were and how was their performance etc judging by some of the things that are being said overcharging, can't be bought etc it is obvious that MOST OF THE PEOPLE haven't tried them.

[Ynot]

Yes I do trust EBay because most of the things you can buy are the same things you buy on the high street but direct and less expensive and you have money back guarantees from PayPal, the one company I can find in England selling Li-on PP3's are charging double the price. Lion PP3's are fully protected against over charging and short circuits so there would be no problem if put in the wrong charger. Don't forget my opinion on this subject is based on using six Li-ion PP3's for a year. I suspect the people who oppose my view HAVE NEVER TRIED Li-ion PP3's so are speaking hypothetically. It surprises me that people working in a technical industry would dismiss a new (ish) technology without even trying it

OK - I think you need to dial back the attitude a little here.

As I said in my last reply, I reckon you're making some major assumptions about the people you're trying to preach to.

 

It doesn't matter what the battery technology is - if a venue or touring user can't guarantee a solid and reliable regime of charging them then they are unlikely to go down that route. Simply suggesting that those of us nay-saying these 'new' rechargeables without trying them is an arrogant accusation because I'm sure many, if not all, HAVE tried or considered the reusable option in the past, and discarded it for very real and practical reasons! At ANY price...

 

No I didn't say you haven't tried them I said "I suspect that most of the people"but if you have tried them I would love to know what mah rating they were and how was their performance etc judging by some of the things that are being said overcharging, can't be bought etc it is obvious that MOST OF THE PEOPLE haven't tried them.

Oh dear - but you are ASSUMING...

That is NOT the same as it being 'OBVIOUS'.

 

And as I've just said, it doesn't matter WHAT sort of rechrageable you are touting, it's the basic principles of the battery management that turns many away from the option.

[fincaman]

Shez

YOU will get on fine, modern rechargeables have greater capacity than some disposibles. you will manage the recharge cycle, you will not accidentally discard the rechargeables. All because you care to do it right.

 

In a general venue with touring noise people daily the chance of a good use and recharge regime is too small for satisfactory use.

At last someone talking sense, touring venues like you say would have difficulty but they form a minute percentage of venues using radio mics, when I started this post I had in mind the venues where they had two or six radio mics and they bought their batteries from the local shop. In the past I did lots of church installations and explained the difference between normal and rechargeable batteries (then NiMH) mostly they went for the rechargeable option and the ones I had contact with later were still using them with no problems. The real point of my post which most people seem to have missed was to point out the massive leap forward that Li-on PP3's represent over NiMH, I suspect their capacity to go up to 1000 mah within the next few years that would give a staggering 24 hrs of use on my belt packs which would dramatically reduce the room for error in forgetting to recharge.

[J Pearce]

The sad thing is this is all quite entertaining. More drama than eastenders in here recently!

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

I do feel as though we've been trolled, just a little...

 

[fincaman]

As a local engineer found out when using rechargeables, it's alright until the caretaker trips the hall socket circuit breaker when locking up to turn off all the pit lights. Said circuit breaker gets put back in when opening up, about an hour and a half before curtain - cue lots of flat radio mic batteries! With standard batteries you at least have some control, you knew when they're new and if you're disciplined with your changing (only removing packaging before they're fitted) you have no question marks. Yes there's the (very) occasional duff one, but they show up pretty quickly.

 

I suspect he was using NiMH the whole point of my post is to point out the superiority of LI-ION PP3's in the scenario you mention with Li-Ion batteries they would only be I estimate at most 33% discharged with 8 hours to go - cue carry on as if nothing had happened. In practice if you were worried you could have two sets marked red and blue and charge them alternately and if you are still worried a box of normal PP3's in case of------ well I don't know what but I'm sure some of the anti's on this post will come up with something. You have far more control over Lion PP3's, with normal batteries you have zero control you put them in they go flat and you throw them away.

Can I ask you if you have ever actually used Li-ion PP3's ?

[Nicktaylor]

I don't think people have bothered to work out the savings i.e. if a theater had 10 belt-packs using lithium PP3's rated at 1200 charges as mine are that's the equivalent of 12000 normal PP3's if you are paying £2.25 that's £27000 less your original investment of about £100 to me it's no contest. After all no one would buy a mobile phone or MP3 player where you had to change the battery

 

Where do you even get Lithium PP3s? Generally LiOn or Lithium Polymer batteries are generally not made in standard cell sized due to their inclination to explode if charged incorrectly. It is mostlu because of this that phones contain non standard cells and have the charging circuitry built in to the phone. On the subject of cost of PP3s they are ~80p a cell if Procells are bought in bulk, still £9600 by your reckoning but in many places cases the costs are absorbed the budgets of many different productions. Making the financial argument works for single long running productions and situations where operators move round with the kit.

 

Even using more commonly available and safer NiMH cells the economics stack up but again it means that someone has to buy and look after the cells. Where as alkalines can just be charged to the budget of the show in hand and forgotten about.

 

I am astounded that you would say that £9600 could be just absorbed I'll bet you haven't told whoever is in charge of finance, I would love to know where procells can be bought for 80 p can you tell us who your supplier is ? It's very easy to buy li-ion batteries and chargers I bought six 500 mah and a 6 way charger on eBay they are made in all standard sizes and are fully protected against over charging and shorts and are just as safe as NiMH cells but the performance is much better, All modern devices come with li-ion batteries and once again I say why are we sticking to the stock sizes of this 40 year old technology surely the way forward is to have an internal LI-ion battery of say 1600 mah and a charging cradle on the receiver or separate, on my belt-packs this would give THIRTY EIGHT HOURS !!! of performance so even if you forgot to charge the batteries for several performances there would be no problem. To me this would be so obviously a step forward and I don't understand why I am getting resistance to the idea

Not arguing against your points, but I dont pay much more for my procells and I only buy about 100 a time. Obviously if you have to buy odd ones from a high street store they do cost maybe £4 or so

 

Over to new G3s so onto AA batteries vey much cheaper and experience suggests they will run a couple of shows per pair and of course there is battery monitoring so at least you dont get caught by it dying with no warning!

[cedd]

You have far more control over Lion PP3's, with normal batteries you have zero control you put them in they go flat and you throw them away.

Can I ask you if you have ever actually used Li-ion PP3's ?

Nope! And in my line of work, I never will. Firstly, I'm a Trantec S5.3 user. That means one battery per pack, for at least 2 performances. So my battery costs are already pretty low. Secondly my work is very seasonal. I can go a good few months without touching my mic racks, then have 3 shows back to back. It's far easier to stick an order in a week before for a tenner's worth of batteries (80 AA's, 160 performances) and have them arrive knowing they're all new and good, than have to worry about sticking them all on charge, making sure they've been looked after during the quiet period. All that malarky. In short, for me, rechagables don't work and aren't worth the investment. If they work for you then that's great, but quite a few other people have already said "not for me".

[Ynot]

Over to new G3s so onto AA batteries vey much cheaper and experience suggests they will run a couple of shows per pair and of course there is battery monitoring so at least you dont get caught by it dying with no warning!

We've had THREE shows out of a set of AAs on our G3s, and if you set up the Sennheiser WRM software you have even more control over monitoring batt life...

[Yorkie]

Today I've been to a church that use rechargable batteries for their mics. They have two original EW500's beltpack transmitters and a pair of new 200mAh NiMH PP3's which are left in the charger all week until Sunday. Come Sunday they're struggling to get 4 hours out of each battery (enough to last for two morning services). Anybody know why? Could it be: Leaving them in the charger/Batteries just not big enough/Hungry transmitters/Something else?