Software

[mumbles]

But there's much better ways of automating a show - I really do appreciate that a lack of budget of course hinders progress, however I am very much with Paul on this one.

[Gerry]

I'd be genuinely interested in knowing what are the better ways as I know that how I do is not ideal.

Cheers

Gerry

[mumbles]

Using a dedicated desk/software solution for the job it was created, with MSC or MidiNotes from one to the others (or backwards and forwards as required) to act as triggers. Yes it is expensive, and as I say I do understand why jack-of-all, master-of-none solutions are used, but on the commercial shows with the budget this is how we do it. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not for an instant suggesting that am drams should do it the mega-bucks way or no way at all, but MagicQ plus midi box, plus Qlab running your sound cues (and video if required) isn't a massive outlay, and each separate component is designed to be very good at the job it does, rather than managing at lots of tasks. Your am dram group may find that an initial outlay of ~£400 for the hardware, and then a per show cost of a few pence is unreasonable, and unaffordable, but maybe they need to reevaluate their budgets if so.... Now I have fortunately never been in a position where saving money is paramount over choosing the appropriate equipment so have never looked into the cost of PCStage, and if this is significantly cheaper then great, but its still not the best tool for the job...at least not in my opinion.

[Gerry]

..so have never looked into the cost of PCStage, and if this is significantly cheaper then great, but its still not the best tool for the job...at least not in my opinion.

So if you have never looked at the cost, and presumably the software how can you say it is not the best tool for the job that I want to do?

Cheers

Gerry

[martinw]

So what does PcStage cost then? I'm rather curious about it and who develops it - it seems to have been around for ages, and has a small but dedicated following, but I don't remember ever seeing any marketing or promotion for it.

 

Hoping someone can satisfy my curiosity!

 

Thanks

 

Martin

[Gerry]

So what does PcStage cost then? I'm rather curious about it and who develops it - it seems to have been around for ages, and has a small but dedicated following, but I don't remember ever seeing any marketing or promotion for it.

 

Hoping someone can satisfy my curiosity!

 

Thanks

 

Martin

Have a look at http://www.lowernab.co.uk/

Cheers

Gerry

[mumbles]

I have looked at the software, just have never made the effort to contact them for a price, as, if I'm honest, the website and the description of the software convinced me I wanted something more suited.

 

I'll repeat again, I don't hold anything against you for using it, but personally wouldn't. I'll also say again I have been very fortunate to work on shows with appropriate budgets, and as such have never been in the situation of being all 3/4/5 departments on anything more than corporate do's.

 

But, and this is a big thing that really gets at me, when professional choice tools are available at a very affordable price point, why would you choose something else. With upset respect for PCStage, especially as I know it has quite a vocal following who speak highly of it, if it was better than the competition, do you not think we would have chosen it as our tool of choice too...

 

I'm sure that there will an argument rolled out that these program's such as PCStage (sorry for wheeling out the same name, not picking on them particularly) are designed with multiple roles in mind and as such does the whole job better, but this just doesn't wash with me, your opinion may, as is absolutely fair, vary but the above is mine...

 

M

[Gerry]

... when professional choice tools are available at a very affordable price point, why would you choose something else.

 

M

Can you please tell me what are these tools that will control both lighting and sound?

I don't think PCstage is perfect, but it is the best I have found for less than 300GBP that is all , and more, than I can personally afford.

Cheers

Gerry

[mumbles]

As said before, I would choose MagicQ and Qlab.

 

You still haven't admitted how much PCStage costs, so we can hardly offer fair alternatives. Is it that much less than the estimates for the midi box seen above? And even if it is, if your amdram group can't find that little, maybe over 2 or 3 shows if necessary, then how are they managing to find funds to keep productions going when they reach a stumbling block, or break the last Makita, or tear the hired costume? And if money really is this tight where are they going to pluck the money from when you need 513 channels, or more problematic I guess, when you need to mix 5 sound FX together and PCStage isn't capable anymore?

 

I'm sorry, but I still stand by my gripe in my last post.

 

E2A: since I started writing, Gerry added the price for PCStage, and personally I think this adds weight to my argument, can they really not find another £100? I had originally typed (before removing it for fear ofinfluencing a decision in a way I could justify) that if it was available at £100-140 then I would almost see the benefit as a disposable item to be upgraded in the future, but not at approaching £300!

[martinw]

Have a look at http://www.lowernab.co.uk/

Cheers

Gerry

 

Yes, I've seen that, but it doesn't really tell me anything about 'Lowernab Technology'. I was interested in who they are and what their motivations were for developing this software.

 

Martin

[Gerry]

... And if money really is this tight where are they going to pluck the money from when you need 513 channels, or more problematic I guess, when you need to mix 5 sound FX together and PCStage isn't capable anymore?

 

 

I personally can't see me ever using more than 512 channels. Particularly in the venue we use.

Not aware of any limit to the number of sound FX I can mix together with PCstage.

We run everything on a very small budget.

The budget for set, lighting and sound the the current show is €275.

I have bought most of the lighting equipment and PCstage and the laptop to run it on out of my own pocket.

I would love to have larger budgets but for the budget I have I can't afford the "better professional solutions"

Cheers

Gerry

[mumbles]

Ok, well as I say, I am lucky enough to work on shows where money isn't this tight, best of luck for your endeavours.

 

Back to the original question, I would urge Andy, the OP to investigate more than just the cheapest solution, and the decide whether a better solution (though obviously not in everyone's view) at a slightly higher cost will be advantageous to them.

 

M

 

And E2A: I was under the impression PCStage was limited to 4 channels of audio, and so trying to later 5 FX would be a problem, I may well be wrong

[andyjw]

One of the reasons I think for using something like PCStage is that once you have plotted, you are using a single cue system. You are not switching between PC and lighting desk, or two applications on the same PC.

Maybe not a big problem, but if you have a set of fairly close cues then its so much easier to just step through them. I for one end up as some sort of octopus trying to cue the sound effect, watch the actors for the cue for the next lighting state, next effect etc,etc.

[mumbles]

Hi Andy,

 

By automating with midi (most likely MSC) you would be able to trigger everything on the second desk from which ever you chose to be you main control surface, virtual or otherwise. You would only need to press the one GO button, MSC commands would deal with triggering the other desk, be it solid or virtual, and on the same or another machine.

 

This does obviously mean more programming, but setting up Tx/Rx midi is very quick once you've got the hang of it on each piece of software.

 

M

[dbuckley]

Lot of entertainment here.

 

It is true; PCStage has never been marketed, and thus it doesn't have a big presence.

 

I have written about PCStage myself, and my stuff is better than the official gen. In my sig is a link to here, and there is also a (now somewhat aged) comparison of PCStage with several other popular tools in the Blue Room Wiki.

 

PCStage is not a "jack of all trades and a master of none" - it is a different way to do technical stuff in theatre. It starts with show control, and builds on that. You have a reasonably capable sound playback device, and a competent generic controller with a bit of movers support. If you dont want to use either the sound or the lighting capabilities, PCStage is still a hell of a show controller.

 

Most theatre professionals earn their living beacuse they are good at a function. There are sound people, light people etc, and PCStage lets a producer get rid of those arbtrary distinctions in show operation (but not design). So if you're paid to operate a Strand 300, or QLab and a console, then a tool that can replace two (or more) people with one is not good news. And it is sadly true that show control type is often used to reduce headcount, rather than for artistic reasons.

 

But in amateur theatre, none of this matters, as it is getting the right person / people in the first place that is hard. Gerry is tech for his society, just like I am tech for mine.

 

But there's much better ways of automating a show - I really do appreciate that a lack of budget of course hinders progress, however I am very much with Paul on this one.

 

Actually, if we're using the term "automating" to mean "show control" then there are few tolols that are "much better". There are other tools that do the same things, and have a feature difference here or there, but nothing that is "much better".

 

Using a dedicated desk/software solution for the job it was created, with MSC or MidiNotes from one to the others (or backwards and forwards as required) to act as triggers.

 

Yes, you can do that. I've done it many times over the years. But the honest answer is if what you want to do is within the capability of a single controller (any single controler, not just PCStage) then using one integrated tool is less work and will end up the more reliable solution than mutiple tools with string between them. In addition, you take away a whole strata of work; you dont need to undertake the mapping exercise at either end of a MIDI cable. And you don't need to make sure the MSC cue numbers match. Heck, you don't even need cue numbers at all. If there are hundreds of triggers then that is a shedload of time.

 

but on the commercial shows with the budget this is how we do it.

Yep, because thats how you get hired and thats how you choose to do it. I'm using "you" here as "you" plural: All pro (as in paid to work) lighting guys think much the same way.

 

Doesn't make it the most appropriate solution, though I'd be the first to admit that if you *need* a hog or whatever (you have several universes and lots of movers) then that is what you need. If you need a couple of hundred channels of generics, then you dont "need" a hog.

 

But, and this is a big thing that really gets at me, when professional choice tools are available at a very affordable price point, why would you choose something else.

 

"Professional" is an attribute of me and my skills and attuitude I bring to the job. The tools themselves aren't professional (or otherwise), they're just tools. Especially when the tools are software. If the right answer for what I did was SFX, then thats what I'd have. I choose the tools I use very carefully.

 

And E2A: I was under the impression PCStage was limited to 4 channels of audio, and so trying to later 5 FX would be a problem, I may well be wrong

 

You are. But it's not your fault; the official website is crap. There is no limit to the number of concurrent playbacks one can have.

 

One of the reasons I think for using something like PCStage is that once you have plotted, you are using a single cue system. You are not switching between PC and lighting desk, or two applications on the same PC.

Maybe not a big problem, but if you have a set of fairly close cues then its so much easier to just step through them. I for one end up as some sort of octopus trying to cue the sound effect, watch the actors for the cue for the next lighting state, next effect etc,etc.

 

Yep.