Bad time to buy an LS9-32?

[dwright2104]

Have a look at the PRO2, it can have 24 channel faders for you, and the POP groups really are a fabulous idea. The Preamps are much nicer than the ls9/m7/and ethersound stageboxes, not compared the new RIO stage boxes yet.

Only thing is Midas still seem to be fixing a few software problems. and I don't like the fact you NEED two cat5 cables for the multicore.

Dante Audio Network defiantly has its plus sides, it uses standard network protocol so you can use Gigabit network switches to split the multicore to laptops and desk ect.

[Shez]

As an aside am I the only one who finds switching between layers on a 16 fader desk at quicker than the run from channel 1-48 on a Midas Xl 3?

For me (and I suspect Cedd too), speed isn't the issue. In musical theatre, having two different characters appearing on the same fader just gets too confusing. You get used to certain characters being on certain faders (particularly the the ones at either end that are the quickest to spot) so it becomes very easy to lose track of which layer you're on and open or close the wrong fader. Mini colour screens for each fader would help a lot (much like on the X32) but there's no such luxury on the LS9.

[J Pearce]

The other issue is that no matter how hard you try without having to preprogram at least special grouping you cannot simultaneously fade out two channels on different layers, which makes radio mic opping more complex. On short run shows it can take more time programming than running.

 

Aside from that, I wouldn't buy an LS9 now, the design is old and the user interface feels a bit clunky compared to newer desks in my opinion. Any digital multi is going to be an add on rather than something fully integrated into the main desk.

 

If I was after a new desk for theatre work I'd be looking at the Roland or the Midas offerings.

[Doug Siddons]

The other issue is that no matter how hard you try without having to preprogram at least special grouping you cannot simultaneously fade out two channels on different layers, which makes radio mic opping more complex. On short run shows it can take more time programming than running.

 

 

 

On the ilive it takes seconds to assign channels on whatever layer to one dca so don't see this as a problem

[Shez]

On the ilive it takes seconds to assign channels on whatever layer to one dca so don't see this as a problem

Until you try to fade up that mic again, having promptly forgotten that you'd assigned it to a DCA in the heat of the moment... It's just another complexity that you really don't need when you've already got your hands and brain full.

[TimmyP1955]

In talking about how many faders are a must have, I get the impression that you aren't thinking along the lines of using scenes, which can do much if not most of the work for you.

 

I'm an LS9 user, and I like it. A firmware upgrade could make it a lot better. Today, I'd have a tough time recommending one instead of a GLD. Would I pay more for a GLD version with more faders? Most certainly.

[cedd]

Today, I'd have a tough time recommending one instead of a GLD. Would I pay more for a GLD version with more faders? Most certainly.

Indeed! I was pestering the A&H reps and just about enyone else that'd listen at Plasa Focus to see if they'd be releasing a GLD112. The answer was almost certainly no (though they're releasing 3 new products at Plasa this year, so I can live in hope....).

 

Shez and J Pearce have hit the nail on the head. I need a fader per channel for at least all my radio mics. Simultaneous exits and entrances of characters just don't work across layers (I've tried it) and characters moving around the board scares me a lot. With a fader per character I know that my leading man and leading lady are always faders 1 and 2, working down in importance from there (which is fine until you get a board where you can't reach faders 1 and 2 and the DCA's or subs at the same time, then you've got to work backwards!).

 

I'm starting to lean far more heavily on the iLive idea. As it's a T112 that's part of this ex hire set that's possibly available, it'll probably end up being one of those. Just depends what I can negotiate on price as it's a bit near to the new price at present. If that doesn't come off then I think it's a good time to start looking at the Roland, of which again there's possibly an ex demo system on offer.

 

LS9 pricing is very good at the minute, which is great, but makes you wonder why. It's still tempting to go for the LS9 and have some cash back in my pocket, but I wonder if I'll regret it in 3 or 4 years time. This needs to be a long term purchase so I need something that'll stand the test of time and not be "old hat" in a few years time. Preferably also sellable!

[J Pearce]

I had a good play with the T112 at SFL's digidesk open day, and found it very very easy to use. They look and feel well built so I wouldn't have any concerns about it being a used desk.

[smalljoshua]

The iLive are very well built, I'm exposed to a fair few being this far South West. I've never seen or heard of one crashing, even if the surface does crash, the iPad app or PC software gives full control whilst you're rebooting the surface!

 

A UPS in the stage rack can't hurt either! An 450VA APC model can be had for less than 100 from ebuyer IIRC.

 

Josh

[cedd]

The one cross against the iLive on the list was the amount of time it takes for the system to be ready to go and for comms to be established between the surface and mixrack. Up to 5 minutes the A&H rep said.With that in mind I think a UPS would be a very good idea!

 

One thing I'd be interested to know is just how easy they are to move around. I was in a nice demo room when I had a play, so whilst I was able to gently lift the console to feel its' weight, I never had to carry it anywhere. I suspect it's not a safe one person lift. How's the mix rack for lifting? I was surprised at how heavy the Roland mixrack was, but that may just be the way SSE build their flightcases!

[csg]

I have T112. R72 and IDR 16 and 32's in hire stock. The T112 is not a practical one man lift flight cased, however its more a question of bulk rather than weight. All the mix racks are very light weight, and wont pose a problem as a one man lift in their own rack.

 

As for boot times - the mix rack will boot and start passing audio in less than 30 seconds. The mix surface will boot up in two stages - the faders and hard controls booting in about 60 seconds, with the touchscreen coming up at 2 mins on average - I certainly have not had a desk take anything like 5 mins to boot up. This is running the latest firmware with the latest revision processor and memory spec on the touchscreen - I guess it is possible that early units took longer.

[cedd]

That's encouraging to hear. Oddly it was an A&H rep, sat in their demo facility with one of their demo consoles, so I can only guess it was reasonably new.

 

I spent the day (at work, ssshhh!) watching pretty much all the A&H tutorial videos on their website. It really is a capable piece of kit isn't it! You don't appreciate it in a demo room even with a band multitrack recording being played back over Dante to play with.

Sadly if I do end up with one I'll still end up with LX tape across the console, which is a shame what with it having those nice backlit screens. Unfortunately 5 characters really isn't enough to fit in a character name. I can shorten most of them, but there's always one or two that really need to be written in full to get a decent description. Especially as that's how the script is marked up. Also without a scene change or a split over 2 faders, it doesn't allow space to show an actor doubling up parts. Once you get a few of these happening, if you do a fader per part with a split you can easily fill a layer on the console, getting us back to the old layer changing issue. Little things that I guess over time I'll find a workaround for, but LX tape has always worked in the past!

 

I think next step is for a good long play with all the consoles in the running at Plasa. It'll be nice to walk from on to the other. Booked train and hotel tickets today, so look out for the 4 Yorkshiremen prodding consoles! Clearly also some negotiating needs doing on the prices I've been quoted as yet!

[mervaka]

Interestingly, almost every iLive user has a T series system (myself included). Any iDR10 users here?

[stagemanagement]

If the T112 system is within the budget range you are looking at then how about the new Vi1 pricing from soundcraft?

At £16.5k list pricing for the surface/digital stage rack deal, then you are realistically looking at around £12k for the package, which puts it in the T112 bracket.

 

The Vi1 doesn't quite reach your fader count, but combined with the ViSi app for iPad you could realistically get access to 24 faders at once using a combination of iPad and surface - although the speed at which the Vi1 can flip from faders 1-12 to 13-24 would probabaly see you comfortably switching between layers 1 & 2 without any real issues for busking.

 

Also remember the limitations of the LS/M7 series for output EQ - the whole Flex 15 compromise for more than 4 GEQ's and 4 stereo FX racks is shocking for a desk in those price categories and something everyone else has managed to avoid except Yamaha!

[i_hate_fisicks]

 

Also remember the limitations of the LS/M7 series for output EQ - the whole Flex 15 compromise for more than 4 GEQ's and 4 stereo FX racks is shocking for a desk in those price categories and something everyone else has managed to avoid except Yamaha!

 

I've never seen this as a limitation. Why would you need to move more than 15 faders on a graphic? I can't imagine why you'd want more than 4 FX too. I can imagine a situation where you'd need more than 8 graphics, but can't you swap FX for graphics?

 

As for something everyone else has avoided, everyone else's desks came after Yamaha!