Bad time to buy an LS9-32?

[brainwave-generator]

I can totally believe that LS9s will be replaced, and not with LS9s. I'm not at all trying to suggest that the LS9 is the best format small console on the market.

 

I'm just saying, when they get replaced, it won't be, en masse, with Behringers.

 

The list that BlueShift brought up - yes those are going to be the sort of things people buy. But not the X32.

 

Any claim that X32 will be an LS9-killer is rubbish. The LS9 will die because it is old and does not meet the specification people expect nowadays, not because Behringer release something similar for less money.

[cedd]

Thomann have lowered their price for a new LS9 (not the case bundle, just the console) by £528 and the case bundle has dropped by £133 within the last week or two.

 

Of course, those changes could just be due to exchange rates or other factors, but it's an interesting one to keep your eye on.

[MarkPAman]

Just a thought...

 

Two M300 desks cost little more than an M480. Can one M300 act as a remote for another, via midi, so one desk does all the audio and the other is just an extra control surface? (I don't know, but I suspect it can)

 

This would give you the 32 faders you need and possibly a lot of other benefits too.

 

You could, of course, also investigate linking two X32 or any other smaller desks.

[cedd]

That's an interesting thought Mark. It's certainly possible to cascade two M480's as it advertises it as a selling point. They're connected via REAC and share busses. I suspect it'd be possible with the M300 as well as it's also got 2 REAC ports. I don't think REAC would allow them to share inputs (the stage box connected to console A wouldn't be accessible to console B without sending the channels via a bus as an output from console A) but it's possible.

The option I've also been looking at is a midi fader wing (Behringer's looking a good bet at the minute) to handle the DCA's and groups, freeing up those faders for channels. I guess this isn't too different to what you're suggesting but using a dedicated midi controller rather than another console.

 

I guess with all the above, an M480 with an additional M300 might also be an option - more money, but with the larger M480 as the main console, the other could very much be the submixer, whereas with the 2 M300's their reduced fader count would mean both desks were a bit of a compromise.

 

I'll grill a Roland rep at Plasa! Ideally a one box solution would be the best. 2 desks is going to lead to some compromises at some point. One desk and a midi fader wing may be the better way to go. Or I just go for the iLive and get everything I need in the one console, for more money. Or I compromise on the M480 and just do some clever stuff with the 3 user layers. Last time I used one I had 20 input channels that were the same over all 3 layers, then had different functions on the last 4 faders per layer. Seemed to work ok.

 

Edit to add

Looking at the midi implementation, DCA's aren't available for midi control, but channel, aux, matrix and master levels and mutes are. I could pick a bank of 8 channels (assuming I use an 8 fader wing) to control an extra 8 channel faders. The midi setup could then remain constant and as shows require it, I could just patch whatever audio source I need to that channel.

[cedd]

Looks like I've got another one to consider now! The Soundcraft Si Performer. No idea what price point it'll come in at, and completely ignoring the DMX function, it looks like a far more suitable console for me than the rest of the Si range, especially the "3" model. Tonnes of faders!

Have to give one a prod at Plasa.

[Matt Riley]

<snip>

One desk and a midi fader wing may be the better way to go. Or I just go for the iLive and get everything I need in the one console, for more money.

<snip>

 

Did you consider using the midi or remote functionality in the ilive for the extra fader wings? That way, you could go for something like an IDR 32/R72 setup and either add a couple of Behringer controllers to get you up to the desired fader count, or use the PL-6 if you can live without motorised faders? It seems you can control lots of stuff including gain and fader levels with a midi controller so this could be a great way to end up with lots of faders to grab whilst still having a desk which is easy to carry?

[mervaka]

An R72 would happily control an iDR32 anyway, it has 12 faders over 6 layers. I've tried getting BCF2000s involved with iLive, and it's a ballache once you try to mix preset layers with scene recall. The Mixpad app is a much better solution. In fact, I control my iDR48 with Mixpad (though admittedly I only ever use half the available channels, but it's no problem at all)

[davescott]

Could be time for a Midas.

[J Pearce]

After a wander round PLASA with this in mind, I'd go with the A&H iLive desks. The layers switch independently per fader bank, so with a little thought most issues could be overcome, and it wouldn't cost much to use a little external networked fader bank to act as dedicated 'panic' fader bank for your principals.

[cedd]

Indeed, Plasa was very useful for focussing the mind.

 

I've discounted the Soundcraft consoles. Just didn't like the user interface on the SI performer or the VI1. Particularly the Performer though. I never really liked the SI Compact layout of knobs either, so it's not really a surprise.

Really my options now are the M480 or the iLive. I'm waiting on pricing from a few companies on both, and have a few ex hire ones that I'm waiting to hear back from too. Once that's all sorted I'll make a decision. Think I need to demo the iLive properly at some point as I've only used it in the demo room for an hour or so.

 

I'm amazed at how cheap the little networked fader banks are for the iLive. I'll certainly be looking in to getting one for a musical director's personal monitor mixer.

[TimmyP1955]

I was rather put off by the small number of faders on the Midas Pro1 until I learned how the VCAs and MCAs worked. I was put off by the lack of a touch screen until I learned about the push knobs. I'm still put off by the cost of an expansion stage box though. As it is (at least in the US) similar in cost to the Roland and A&H, it's worth a look.

[Stuart91]

I was rather put off by the small number of faders on the Midas Pro1 until I learned how the VCAs and MCAs worked.

 

I can understand how POP groups etc. make it quicker and easier to navigate the desk when you have it all set up for a band you are familiar with. What I can't fathom is how it wouldn't slow me down enormously in some of the "throw and go" situations we often encounter, e.g. local festival with very little in the way of stage plots or input lists in advance, and no soundchecks.

[themadhippy]

"throw and go" situations we often encounter, e.g. local festival with very little in the way of stage plots or input lists in advance, and no soundchecks.

A standard patch is your friend,keep to the same channels so when you hit the backline pop group you get your backline channels

[RichM]

"throw and go" situations we often encounter, e.g. local festival with very little in the way of stage plots or input lists in advance, and no soundchecks.

A standard patch is your friend,keep to the same channels so when you hit the backline pop group you get your backline channels

 

This.

 

For all the local venues I work in I have a standard patch that very rarely changes. It means I can mix most stuff without having to think too hard about it as all I have to do is look at the stage position and type of each instrument to know what channel it will be on. (Stage left guitar is always channel 14 etc.)

[cedd]

Just wanted to update this thread to document my progress so far.

 

I've still not bought anything!

 

I have, however, spent a good bit of time playing with consoles, both at Plasa and on training courses.

I was on a Digico SD series training course earlier this week and spent most of my time on an SD9. Really liked the console. Found it very easy to use and it had a really good feature set. I was particularly impressed with the spill/folding function, which worked in a slightly different way to other consoles - you get a bank of 11 meters at the top of the spill channel on the screen, with an unfold button. When working with a band alongside a bunch of radio mics, this is really nice. I did get slightly confused by the assignable solo button and often left it in the wrong mode, forgetting to return it to solo mode. I guess this is something you just get used to after using one for a while.

 

I'm also on an iLive course next week, which should give me a bit more hands on time with one of them before I have to make a decision.

 

Also attempting to get hold lf an M480 again, just to refresh my memory a bit before the final decision.

 

Chris