chamsys purchase and configuration choices

[rob_dj]

Slightly O/T of the lighting, but with the IT - If you're going to get a rack to put it all in in a nice flight case, why not have a look at Comms Express (www.comms-express.com) for your UPS and gigabit switch? I use them in the day job as an IT Consultant, and they've always been OK with me. You can get a 17" screen in a 1U drawer with a KB and touchpad or trackball, and something like the HP DL120 rackmount 1U server running XP/7 and a nice Netgear switch, then all you have to do is put it in a flight case and you've got all your IT in a single box for ease of transport. Or even shove another server in and a wireless point in there and remote into them from a laptop/iPad/Android Tablet or run a couple of touch screens off them?

 

Sorry, meant to say Panasonic ToughBooks are great, but not cheap. One of my clients has 4 or 5 of the blighters, but be aware they don't all have touch screens. And if the touch screen fails, they aren't cheap to replace. I'd rather just buy a separate Touch -enabled TFT screen for a PC or LT, or look at something like AirDisplay which uses an iPad as a second monitor on your PC but lets you touch on it, or VNC from iPad onto existing PC so you can control it via touch.

[timsabre]

I was actually thinking of putting the model of UPS in our rider for all our shows, so that wherever we go the venue will have some ready for us. So the weight won't be that much of an issue.

 

I doubt you'll get what you want... it's not the sort of thing most venues would stock. You will most likely end up with some random UPS of unknown battery health borrowed from somewhere else in the venue.

 

If there's one thing worse than not having a UPS, it's thinking you have got one then discovering it lasts for about half a second when someone accidentally unplugs your desk.

[cameroncoats]

My PC wing takes somewhere around 10 seconds to boot up. I don't have it to hand to get a more exact time for you. Usually it just reconnects itself and doesn't need the usb pulled out and reinserted.

the HP DL120 rackmount 1U server running XP/7

I have a DL145 here which is difficult to talk over when powered up; I wouldn't recommend using a server for anything quieter than a rock gig.

Another point when choosing a server/PC: generally shorter rack depths mean smaller, higher speed and therefore louder fans.

Also, the rack rails often rely on gravity to hold the server in, which is fine in a datacenter but less than ideal when touring.

 

The same applies to a UPS - with the added 'bonus' of some lead acid batteries which are not massively well supported (effectively sitting on a tray).

 

Mains power in the UK is generally quite reliable - using a cr@p UPS will quite often adversely affect the reliability. I'm not saying don't use a UPS (especially on temporary power), but with the amount of kit that you're investing in, make sure you don't get something that will let you down.

[rezmu]

@ltully and paulears

I don't know what context you work in.

In the context I work in, a backup is absolutely essential, and anybody running a show this size without one is in my opinion completely irresponsible.

It's a theatrical cue stack type show, where the cues are adapted specially for each venue, which takes 4 to 8 hrs.

 

The lighting cues are part of the storylines, and are integral to the choreography, so performing in straight light is not possible.

And financial losses if the main desk goes down without a backup at one single performance can easily amount to 10 to 30 times the price of the backup system.

I have had two experiences with desk failures. In one I was in the audience for a performance of an opera in a big festival. Main desk went down, they had no backup onsite, performance was 2+ hours late, many in the audience left during that time, huge humiliation and damage to reputation of the producer, with financial consequences.

Second time was with my company, we were working with the venue's desk in Spain a few years back, and didn't yet have obligatory desk backup onsite specified in our rider. Lost the 8hrs of work that my LD had done on the lighting cues when the desk fried on the day of the premiere. By the time we got a backup, he had only 40 minutes before the show to redo his 8hrs of work, blind, as the audience came in. I will let you imagine what our lighting was like at that performance...

 

@ramdram

 

you have understood what I am going for perfectly. any advice on specs I should be looking for in the UPS? "online / double conversion" as suggested by tow ?

 

@timsabre

hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, it does seem that it would be an issue. I guess we need to be very precise on specs in the rider, test the battery as soon as we arrive, and if it's not good, tell them to get another one. just need to figure out how to very precisely describe exactly what we need in the rider, so that if they provide something inadequate, we can clearly point to the spec in the rider that's not being met.

 

I'm basically settled on running everything on laptops, for portability, (both during travel, and for doing offline programming), also they have their own batteries.

At this point it looks like touch toughbooks, or macbook pros running windows with external touch screens (macs because in my experience, they have the best quality of construction for hardware and reliability particularly wrt to heat today)

 

best,

 

sam

[ramdram]

Ref info on UPS then alas no. I would presume you will have a better chance of finding such items using your own local searches?

 

I suppose you could consider using some 12v car type lead acid batteries and inverters...perhaps not the most elegant of solutions but possibly better than nothing.

 

A sort of home brew UPS as in the laptops are running off the inverters, which in turn are running of the batteries which are sitting across a battery charger type system so if the power trips the batteries simply keep "working" on their own. Clunky but it might answer your needs.

 

(This is not exactly a new idea by the way, telephone exchanges have been backed up by battery power for decades.)

 

One caveat might be electrical "noise" from the extra kit in the supply when the battery charger was working.

 

We have just started using laptops for SFX at our venue and consequently find the UPS topic quite interesting. It did occur to me that if all else failed then given the laptops' batteries being fully charged then you might get a few hours out of them.

 

I have an Acer 4810 which claims to run for eight hours on batteries. This is a tad optimistic because the best I have ever achieved is about four hours. The claim may relate to running the laptops with no load...not playing a video file say???

 

If you did resort to simply running off battery power via inverters then it may be that you could at least keep the power on for the desks so that when the local power was restored it would only be a case of waiting for the dimmers and amps to "power up" and off you went.

 

12v car batteries are found all over the planet so it might be a case of buying a few extra so you might find you could run for hours.

 

Don't know if the above is any use of course...something for yourself and tech team to explore.

[dbuckley]

If power availability is that important, then I suggest that you consult an expert in the field of power reliability.

 

A (preferably, pair of, provising A/B power) online, double coversion UPS is always the recommended choice. Where your source power is of uncertain providence, a UPS that can be configured to not track the input waveform and phase-lock to it is recommended, but not if you are running video.

[paulears]

Sorry Rezmu, I didn't realise you were intending running a major production where a show failure would be catastrophic - When you said you wanted to find a cheaper network switch, I assumed wrongly that like many of us, we were working to set budgets - hence why you needed to save money.

 

That said - backups are not always provided. I remember well the George Michael tour where the major expenses of the production was a huge video screen, and half-way through thousands of people were treated to "sorry - windows has had to close.........."

 

With the Chamsys products being so cost effective, as we've described - having a spare is perfectly possible, but is less common in typical UK use. Even when tracking backups, available for many years now, were available - they were not considered essential by many venues.

 

Backups are not essential - or else each manufacturer would simply sell two to every customer, or even build in two totally separate controls into one housing for absolute reliability. Having a backup gives you alternatives for when things go wrong - but do you carry two sound desks, or two pyro systems etc?

 

George Michael may well have wished they had toured two systems for controlling the screens, but it was considered a waste of resources - the price of a spare computer a tiny proportion of the show budget. At the time this topic ran - somebody from the show said a production decision NOT to tour a second system had been made, and they lived with it. A man in a black suit, standing on a huge black stage, with no lighting (not programmed to hit the screen) lit by just two follow spots for ten minutes while it was fixed. As it was it came back, failed again, and then came back and stayed on.

 

Sorry for misunderstanding your circumstances. Paul