LED Pars Compared to 1KW Par

[tom_the_LD]

Has anyone got any experience with the Chauvet colorado's and how the output of these would compare to the fireball.

Hi Jordan,

 

Which Colorado units are you referring to?

 

I've used both the Colorado 1's and the Colorado Tri Tours (both the IP and normal versions; not that it makes much or a difference!)

 

The Colorado 1 units (the originals) are ok, powercon in and out, 3XLR in and out, but are much narrower than the tri tours. They're bright don't get me wrong, but they are much narrower. Probably between a CP60 and CP61 I'd say - been a while since I've used them though! They also have separate LED's so you do get colour fringing.

 

The tri tours are great - nice quality of beam, much wider, very bright and a great range of colours. I've had one next to a PAR 64 with a scroller on (was doing a shoot-out); didn't take any readings but was just doing it by eye. Saturated colours, especially blues, they're much brighter. The PAR was still brighter at the amber/open white side, but not by masses I would'nt say. That said, the PAR I was comparing against had a scroller on so some light will have been lost through the heat shield etc. I've got some photos I can send/upload of a couple of shows I've used them on; although not sure how useful these will be as there's nothing to 'compare' them to. A company near me stocks a load of them and in the years they've had them (must be about 3 or 4 now), there have been (touch wood!) no failures on them. Again powercon in and out and 3XLR in and out.

 

I've not used the quads I'm afraid, so if it was the quads you were referring to then the above isn't much help!

 

I've not used the exact fireball units mentioned, although have used the same ones rebranded, and I'd say the colorados are much brighter.

 

Hope this is in some way vageuly useful!

[LeeStoddart]

...I don't know what "smaller form factor" means and wikipedia didn't really help. Can you assist?...

.

 

Smaller Form Factor means "smaller than an equivalent product"

 

So if ETC produce the next version of the S4 36 degree profile with the same output but a physically shorter body they could describe that as a "smaller form factor"

 

Presumably in the context of this discussion it is suggested that the LED in a Par56 body has the output of a traditional Par64.

[paulears]

I think we're going to have to rethink using size as a descriptor. We've become used to seeing PAR64 and matching it to a few standard beam widths in terms of oomph in our heads. Bunging LEDs into something the same size introduces so many new variables that means comparison is next to impossible. So far,expensive LED equipment has info sheets and web data showing proper photometric data, while the budget end uses music shop style incomplete and deeply suspicious data. I'm thinking lumens - but no distance or beam angles.

Sablednah's product falls into the expensive category

PAR 64 Replacement with added Brightness

36 x 5W RGB LEDs

Standard beam angle 25º

Individual led lens kits supplied with fixture, for the following beam angles 15º, 40º & 60º

Individual led lens kits retain maximum lumen output while changing beam angle

RGB wavelengths chosen for white simulation at 5600K and away from the blue spectrum.

Double Yoke allows Floor Mount or Truss Mount

DMX or Automatic Operation

Operating Voltage 100-240V

The beam width seems to match the CP62, but how bright is it. Data on CP62s is easily available, the claim here is added brightness. The website blurb is replicated on numerous web sites UK and EU, and none have any data to back up the claims. The data sheet, contains no technical data at all but does use some flowery language - a 'well rounded product'. For six hundred quid, I want to see the evidence of the claims of brighter than a PAR 64. The other thing is that to equal the performance of a 56 or 64, it's not just brightness and beam angle, it's what the beam looks like in the air with haze.

 

Sorry if I'm a sceptic, but every day the factories I buy microphones from in China, send me their updated lighting info. Price, and dubious specs. Each time they buy new batches of LEDs they change the data because the components are generic, so continuous improvement is how it's going to do. Buying a dozen cheap LED cans can be a good investment, even if by two years on you are down to 9, and the next dozen are used separately,because you can't mix and match the old and new. Spending nearly seven grand on these for a similar number is not cost effective at all. Too expensive for what they are by a long way. It can be argued (often is here|) that 12 PAR 64s could be replaced by 4 LED colour changers - BUT - 12 beams look better in some circumstances than 4 that change colour. There is a market for these. Hire companies, permanent installs, installs where access for recolouring is difficult etc, but if the sales push is pointed at brightness, then data is a key feature, and data - as always - is sparse and full of hyperbole.

[Just Some Bloke]

...I don't know what "smaller form factor" means and wikipedia didn't really help. Can you assist?...

.

 

Smaller Form Factor means "smaller than an equivalent product"

 

So if ETC produce the next version of the S4 36 degree profile with the same output but a physically shorter body they could describe that as a "smaller form factor"

 

Presumably in the context of this discussion it is suggested that the LED in a Par56 body has the output of a traditional Par64.

 

Thank you for that. In other words "smaller form factor" means the same as "smaller". A bit like saying "I work for a waste solutions company" means "I'm a bin man". Now I know!

[Robin D]

I think you will find the expression comes from the electronics industry and actually relates to the ratio of the equivalent DC to create the same power as an AC supply. (If my memory from college is correct! :unsure:) It became mainstream jargon with computers where a microATX board is physically smaller but with the same functionality than an ATX board and has since been adopted into other 'consumer' fields.

[alistermorton]

Yes, that's the usual meaning - physically smaller, but producing the same "whatever" so a traditional PAR56 is smaller than a PAR64 but it doesn't doesn't produce the same amount of light, whereas an LED fixture might be PAR56 sized but producing PAR64 levels of performance. So it's described as having a smaller form factor, rather than just being smaller.

 

Marketing semantics, really.

[sablednah]

Smaller Form Factor means "smaller than an equivalent product"

 

So if ETC produce the next version of the S4 36 degree profile with the same output but a physically shorter body they could describe that as a "smaller form factor"

 

Presumably in the context of this discussion it is suggested that the LED in a Par56 body has the output of a traditional Par64.

 

Thanks that was exactly my meaning in this ;) And yes for those that elaborated - I am from an IT background - so yeah "form factor" for me fits in whether I'm talking about "standardised sizes".

 

I think we're going to have to rethink using size as a descriptor. We've become used to seeing PAR64 and matching it to a few standard beam widths in terms of oomph in our heads. Bunging LEDs into something the same size introduces so many new variables that means comparison is next to impossible. So far,expensive LED equipment has info sheets and web data showing proper photometric data, while the budget end uses music shop style incomplete and deeply suspicious data. I'm thinking lumens - but no distance or beam angles.

Sablednah's product falls into the expensive category

PAR 64 Replacement with added Brightness

36 x 5W RGB LEDs

Standard beam angle 25º

Individual led lens kits supplied with fixture, for the following beam angles 15º, 40º & 60º

Individual led lens kits retain maximum lumen output while changing beam angle

RGB wavelengths chosen for white simulation at 5600K and away from the blue spectrum.

Double Yoke allows Floor Mount or Truss Mount

DMX or Automatic Operation

Operating Voltage 100-240V

The beam width seems to match the CP62, but how bright is it. Data on CP62s is easily available, the claim here is added brightness. The website blurb is replicated on numerous web sites UK and EU, and none have any data to back up the claims. The data sheet, contains no technical data at all but does use some flowery language - a 'well rounded product'. For six hundred quid, I want to see the evidence of the claims of brighter than a PAR 64. The other thing is that to equal the performance of a 56 or 64, it's not just brightness and beam angle, it's what the beam looks like in the air with haze.

 

Sorry if I'm a sceptic, but every day the factories I buy microphones from in China, send me their updated lighting info. Price, and dubious specs. Each time they buy new batches of LEDs they change the data because the components are generic, so continuous improvement is how it's going to do. Buying a dozen cheap LED cans can be a good investment, even if by two years on you are down to 9, and the next dozen are used separately,because you can't mix and match the old and new. Spending nearly seven grand on these for a similar number is not cost effective at all. Too expensive for what they are by a long way. It can be argued (often is here|) that 12 PAR 64s could be replaced by 4 LED colour changers - BUT - 12 beams look better in some circumstances than 4 that change colour. There is a market for these. Hire companies, permanent installs, installs where access for recolouring is difficult etc, but if the sales push is pointed at brightness, then data is a key feature, and data - as always - is sparse and full of hyperbole.

 

You make a good point about rethinking "using size as a descriptor", this was exactly the discussion we had about LED units in our office. They are usually smaller than traditional cans; it's just fact that LEDs are smaller than lamps so they fit into a smaller box. The lower waste heat also helps reduce size. So the physical size, even shape of a unit is no longer an indicator (at least for LED units).

 

As for the data, you're 100% correct, you do need more information than the typical sales hyperbole to judge, so I've sourced the IES files for the photometric data. Look at the downloads section here for the files. Hopefully that will give you some better idea of the quality/abilities ;)

 

I'll try to get Normal from electraLite over here to make a better defence of the quality of his own products than I could ever do. But you can always visit us (10k Ltd) at Plaza in London next month where you can make a hands on judgement as well have some elektraLite products on display!