Ceiling collapse at Apollo Theatre

[rossmck]

Not just theatres suffer this kind of thing - ornate plasterwork in Stately Homes seems to suffer from these kinds of incident, fairly frequently.

 

 

Indeed, and they don't tend to be subjected to loud orchestras, PA, pyro effects and other vibrations that theatres are (which can't help)

 

 

[Andrew C]

Ours isn't ornate, just a quarter round "cornice" about 18" radius. It is indeed held up with bits of twisted wire. I'm one of the very few people to have seen it up close, and I've no clue as to whether it is safe.

[timsabre]

Ours isn't ornate, just a quarter round "cornice" about 18" radius. It is indeed held up with bits of twisted wire. I'm one of the very few people to have seen it up close, and I've no clue as to whether it is safe.

 

I've been up in a lot of theatre roofspaces, and decorative ceilings all look extremely dodgy from above, held up by random wood struts or bits of wire mesh. They seem to rely on the adhesion of the plaster to the wood, or the little nibs of plaster squashed through gaps. The question is, would an experienced eye be able to spot a problem?

[indyld]

Perhaps an area where visual inspection isn't that useful. There are many wonderful ceilings around, but many are so old that the actual construction method is unknown. Thinking about it, how did people get plasterwork up there apart from hauling it, and once up, fixing would really have been quite tricky!

 

To be fair, this and a lot of comments about the traditional methods of decoration and and plasterwork only really highlight a lack of knowledge here and not that no one knows how these things work. I have family in traditional trades and there are engineers all over that are able to inspect and infer the safety of methods based on experience and an understanding of the history of techniques. Yes, they involve rope, wood, wire, sheep poo, plaster squished through lath, etc. But that doesn't make them inherently unsafe or unable to be determined. Structures are just structures and are beholden to the same physics whatever their material.

 

<total speculation alert>

Of course, a ton of water building up on the top side of a suspended ceiling following an undetected and possible long term leak could bring it down. That could happen with a modern ceiling too.

<end speculation >

 

As Adam says, talk of evac procedures seems a little OT as no one can outrun a falling thing. As it was, it sounded to me that, outside of the rolling news hyperbole, the evac was pretty standard given the situation.

Edited December 20, 2013 by indyld

[Wingwalker]

Never believe everything you read in the press...

 

According to the photo caption “Lights were dangling”…

 

 

Eh???

 

 

Hardly – looks like it’s the safety bond doing its job on a single barn door.

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526644/Audience-members-trapped-balcony-Apollo-Theatre-collapses-performance.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

 

[indyld]

Yeah. Hadn't yet seen those pictures but they look pretty much to be what I was envisaging last night when the news readers seemed desperate to big everything up endlessly. Of course, people get injured when stuff falls from some height and it isn't pleasant. However, it has never been reported that any injuries were "critical", only serious.

 

This " lighting rig falls down" looks to be in a similar vein to that. In fact, any impact has appeared to do little more than a re focus on the balcony rail which is as much as you would expect given the components involved.

 

Serious for those involved but hyperbole is unhelpful. At least the emergency services spokespersons refuse to be drawn into that game even if shocked members of the public give the newscasters the drama they require.

 

It seemed to take a good while for "roof collapses" to go to "ceiling", having originally started as "balcony". All of these things are very different. The distinction between a roof and a ceiling seemed to elude newscasters for long while during the reporting.

 

Of course, this doesn't diminish the seriousness of what did happen.

Edited December 20, 2013 by indyld

[kitlane]

I'm surprised that the press don't seem to have mentioned the falling plasterwork at The Aldwych just a few months ago.

[sleah]

I've just read this comment left below the article linked to: (my bold)

 

Andy, Warrington, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago

 

Some questions: Are there any other old buildings in London, liable to be affected by the weather. Are 'arty' people fit to rig lights? Are 'arty' people suitable for theater management? Do these buildings get regular independent inspections? Is it right that the property has numerous drillings made for light supports? What special features, if any, prevented people from being killed in this case?

 

I'm just left shaking my head :( Poor clueless idiot!

Edited December 20, 2013 by sleah

[john-sp]

From the above-linked article in the Daily Mail:

 

 

"An expert in building restoration suggested either excess water or a loose lighting rig could have been responsible.

Martyn Watchurst, who has helped maintain ceilings at the Royal Opera House and Windsor Castle, said that plaster could be weakened by faulty fittings.

'The collapse could be caused by something as simple as a chain from the lighting rig attached to the ceiling which brings the whole ceiling crashing down,' he said.

'Sometimes these rigs are put up at high speed and without the time to properly check the structure can take it.

'What could also have happened is the obvious: the heavy rain made the weight of the cast increase significantly. This puts pressure on it and the whole thing crumbles and collapses. Once one bit comes away it pulls the rest of it down with it.' "

 

 

Obviously that quote is pure speculation, I think it is rather stupid to cast aspersions on the show crew's technical expertise with no proof whatsoever!

 

The real cause will come out after the evidence has been examined, but I would bet on water damage rather than a lighting rig being suspended from plasterwork!!

Edited December 20, 2013 by john-sp

[sleah]

Am I the only one who can't see a lighting grid suspended from the ornate ceiling? :unsure: Edited December 20, 2013 by sleah

[indyld]

Have to say, I'm not sure about the expert quote that suggest rigs can be put up at speed and without checking to see if the structure can take it. I'd blimmin well hope that is not professional practice anywhere in this country in this day and age and having worked as a rigger on large musicals It's certainly not my experience. Again, people shooting their mouths off.

 

Poorly installed motor points (or more likely, poorly slung truss pick ups) can make a mess of a ceiling as can bad brailling or bridling as can cutting additional holes in the skin which has the potential to weaken it. I'm not convinced that this is relevant here but certainly part of life rigging in old theatres.

 

The interesting element here is the timing. It may be complete co incidence that a failure that may have happened overnight when the theatre was dark, actually happened mid show. Or it could not. Perhaps other ceiling failures do happen out of hours and get tidied up without comment....

 

Will be fascinated to find out the real series of events.

Edited December 20, 2013 by indyld

[kerry davies]

One thing to bear in mind is that this is a grade two listed building and any building works would need to be done "in sympathy with" the original construction and methods. Oops?

 

Whoever speculates as to causes of collapse in listed old buildings needs their head examined since they sometimes fall down completely on their own. Best left to experts examining the place and be prepared for a theatre being dark for months at the very least. If the specialists are brought in to rebuild to original spec it could take years and cost millions.

[Giles Favell]

The other consideration which people should be aware of - both in this instance and in their own theatres - is the reasonably high instance of auditoria ceilings (plaster thereof) containing asbestos. I believe it's not necessarily a problem with the plasterwork in good order, but when it's not......

However, I am not an expert in this field and am only coincidentally aware of the issue. As always - there are specialist companies that deal with these things, and Asbestos Registers are required etc. etc.

Let us hope it is not the case with the Apollo, for obvious reasons.

[gareth]

Some very bad journalism, and bad writing, in that Daily Fail article. Early on, it clearly states that a doctor had to staple Twitter back together last night!

She posted a photo of her wound on Twitter, which doctors had to staple together after she was evacuated from the theatre.

Many of the comments at the end are a pretty good indicator of what's wrong with people's general mind-set in situations like this these days, too - so much talk of blame and pointing fingers, and I only had to read a few comments before finding the first one suggesting that the audience should start looking for someone to sue. Very sad.

[erroneousblack]

In our crew room tonight we went through the comments of the Daily Mail online report, absolute comedy gold. The best was one that manged to get UKIP, benefits and immigrants into one sentence!