Leeburkill Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I've been offered some mac 250's for £425 each or some mac 500 for £500. The guy I was talking to was a Martin engineer for 15 years and now has his own business reconditioning and selling light. I'm preferring the 500's because they have an iris? With the budget I have right now I can only buy two, not ideal but is it worth buying two 500 for now and adding to them in the future or buy three 250's and add to those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRW Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I've been offered some mac 250's for £425 each or some mac 500 for £500. The guy I was talking to was a Martin engineer for 15 years and now has his own business reconditioning and selling light. I'm preferring the 500's because they have an iris? With the budget I have right now I can only buy two, not ideal but is it worth buying two 500 for now and adding to them in the future or buy three 250's and add to those? Are they original 250s or one of the newer models? IIRC, the original 250s are somewhat lacking in features in comparison to say, the Kryptons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I've been offered some mac 250's for £425 each or some mac 500 for £500. The guy I was talking to was a Martin engineer for 15 years and now has his own business reconditioning and selling light. I'm preferring the 500's because they have an iris? With the budget I have right now I can only buy two, not ideal but is it worth buying two 500 for now and adding to them in the future or buy three 250's and add to those? You're STILL thinking of movers?? Sorry to carp on, but given all the advice to the contrary, I thought you'd given up that idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 In any case, mac500s are very ancient moving lights - Martin's first moving spot fixture from 15 years ago. Even aside from the advice about the unsuitability of moving lights for your application, you don't want to be starting with something so old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Speaking as someone whose first experience of programming and maintaining moving lights was with second hand, old, out of production units such as these I would suggest there are pro's and cons. The biggest pro of course is that the cost of these old units drops into affordability compared to buying new, but be aware that the units may have inherent faults which always wait until a show or two after you have paid your money before rearing their ugly heads. Most are simple enough to fix, if you have the training, but the parts can sometimes cost as much as you paid for the unit in the first place. In terms of wether to go for two 250's or one 500 for the same(ish) money I would say, how big is your venue? Apart from the iris the biggest difference between the units is the output in lumens, after all the 500 takes a stronger lamp. In my experience even my cadre of geriatric MAC 500's sometimes struggle to punch a prismed gobo wash over a colour wash from par 64's (especially the two units who despite my hours of tinkering and cleaning still fail to give as bright an output as their comrades). I couldn't possibly recommend 250's for anything but small venues unless they are being used just for eye-candy or as solo specials on a darkened stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeburkill Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm loosing the plot thinking about this. I have three lighting bars on stage that running across it, front, middle and back and two vertical bars front of house about 6 meters away from the proscenium. The stage itself measures about 6 meters in depth and 8 meters in width. The hall is 16 meters by 9 meters and 9 meters high. I have a 24 Chanel dimmer, ten front of house, six on the front bar, four on the middle, two on the back and two pairs of dip sockets at stage level. Lighting wise, 16 par 64's, 6 par 32 LEDs, 2 par 64 LEDs, 6 fresnels and two follow spots. Opporation wise, zero88 jester 48 ML and I still have an old 24 Chanel desk that I think? Could be slaved?No partridge or pair tree.I have money to spend that isn't mine and I'm loosing sleep worrying I'm go to spend it on the wrong thing???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm loosing the plot thinking about this. Happens to me all the while :) I've been back and re-read all your posts, trying to figure out for myself what you want these new units to do. And you know what; I haven't a clue and I suspect you don't either. I think their intended use falls into two categories... 1) Mood lighting for social events e.g. weddings and parties.2) Area lighting for when performances, or parts of, happen on the hall floor. Is that right? I don't think either of those are particularly well served by 3 movers. For the first situation you probably want washes and for the latter you want spots. Also, 3 is not a useful number if you were to want to use them as eye-candy on a stage production, there's no option to pair them up. Were this my problem I'd forget the idea of movers. For mood lighting I'd buy some LED PARs with a decent wide beam, rig them to cover the whole floor area, and buy a cheap controller that you can leave out. For area lighting I'd use what you already have, maybe supplemented with a few second-hand conventionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Moving lights need to be in quantities to do anything useful, so two is quite ok for maybe throwing a few hobos upstage when they've had a chance to spread, but 4 helps fill the space. 8 lets you start to do interesting stuff. With ancient movers your biggest problem is lifespan, reliability and light output. Mac250s we're never bright, and modern 250s are brighter than Mac500s. Why are they available? Hire companies frequently flog off 2 or 3 year old kit because they are uneconomic to keep in good repair, and the first 250s and 500s we're got rid of a long time ago. So unless you know the history of these, there is no guarantee they will be working next week! Spend your money on more (quantity) fixed lights and a proper controller. Moving lights and even RGB mixing LED is a real pain on a controller meant for dimmers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitlane Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 ...... two is quite ok for maybe throwing a few hobos upstage when they've had a chance to spread, ........ This seems a bit harsh. They probably just wanted a cup of tea and to get out of the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeburkill Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 That's part of the problem, the new lights are not for any specific reason or show. I thought movers would give me the most versatility...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Movers do give you more versatility, but 3 20yr old Mac500s are just going to give you a maintenance headache, as parts rapidly become obsolete. Has the committee considered the implication of the extra lamps? Lamps for movers are significantly more expensive than halogen lamps. For a small venue with adequate generic stock my immediate thoughts would be some fixed led wash units, maybe with zoom if budget allows. This would free up your generic stock from doing colour washes, and allow you to do more interesting stuff, and also doubles up nicely as mood lighting for other events. Your Jester ML should control these sort of things happily, and they use a lot less plotting time than full movers. You could get 4-6 reasonable quality led units for your budget, that are practically maintenance free, and consumable free, and should give you 10 years service if you don't buy mega cheap nonsense. Something like this, though I haven't used these so that's not a recommendation, merely an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianknight Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 As we install a lot of stuff one way or another in to small halls, small schools and churches over the course of a year, I've heard a lot of folk ask for the same sort of kit that Lee originally asked about and being honest - it won't work as flexibly as you expect. The greater majority of the units mentioned here (as others have said) will be too narrow a beam over the throws you're looking at and whilst they'll look stunning as eye candy, that's all they'll really be. If you're looking for something worthwhile to spend a grant on that will give the hall and it's users some flexibility and (relative) ease of use - then please contact ProLight and ask them for your nearest dealer. Once you've got a name and phone number, ring them and ask for a demo onsite of the Intense 9P10, the LEDj Q colour and the Elumen8 100W Alu Tri RGB - they're all nice little units but each has their foibles in terms of beam size, fan noise and so on. However, try them in your hall and see how they perform... By buying LED fixtures you'll be saving the hall running costs in three areas: Electricity, Gel and Lamps and in return giving users the ability to have nice atmosphere lighting for either drama, dance or parties. They're also in the price range that whilst not in the "El Cheapo" category do perform (and will perform for quite a while) nicely and serve you well. (Mods - you know how nervy I get about advertising - please feel free to make any changes - Ian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This is good advice from Ian, and if you manage to organise a demo you could try some LED moving heads at the same time. You will then be able to see for yourself the limitations which have been discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 The wash units have an element of zoom . Its not a spot but the op seems to want to light areas not necessarily as a hard edge spot. By the way I have some at home just acquired and I can adjust the beam width an awful lot. Maybe zoom is the wrong phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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