Looking for a new console

[vinntec]

 

1. Cheap backup option (£10 dongle)
2. Full remote control facilities on multiple platforms

Those two options are not compatible. If you use (or perhaps - are unfortunate enough to need to use) #1, you don't get #2.. Other than that, a fine analysis of a good selection process. The MQ60 does look a fine desk, and the MQ40 seems... very limited.

Yes, we cannot remote control a PC running on a £10 dongle. But we can remote control the MQ60 from a PC/Mac (without dongle) across LAN (which we are doing for the current show) and the same PC/Mac can also plug into DMX using £10 dongle and run the show in an emergency (provided we remembered to save the show file beforehand) even if the MQ60 fails completely [which we certainly don't expect]. We might even splash out for the £50 dongle or the basic wing! These two facilities together were one of the icings on the cake as they fitted our tiny space perfectly in terms of flexibility. The current show is very simple in terms of numbers of lighting and sound cues, so why not let the SM run everything? His MacBook remote controls the MQ60 which in turn triggers some of the sound cues via a special device using DMX - supported by other sounds from SM's iPad.

[niclights]

In response to Mark, I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience using Avolites Titan. I completely understand your sentiments and realise I won't be able to change your feelings - it tends to be either 100% or 0% confidence. If something goes wrong for whatever reason, even once, then that's that.

 

However, for the purposes of balance and for the OP, I have used Titan on shows almost daily since the first beta's in 2008 across all builds (beta and release). In all that time I have never had any software issues running release builds. This is mostly using various Pearl Experts and some Tiger Touch. I have experienced some hardware issues relating to hard drive and I suspect this might be the cause of your issues on the Expert. A lot of effort has gone into solving this, including custom firmware from SSD manufacturers. Similarly, Titan Mobile is very much at the mercy of the laptop and operating system. Sometimes Usb power saving functions in Windows can cause issues like loss of DMX. This is not an issue on the consoles where the operating system is tailored. Of course neither of these are an excuse or acceptable but my point is it is typically hardware rather than software which is the culprit. Ultimately you can never guarantee hardware which is why Titan and all the other majory manufacturers have backup options. Sometimes this is not practical but wherever possible it's a good idea.

 

Returning to the actual question, I had refrained from getting involved as my opinion is perhaps baised. But personally I would choose Avo. For me the combination of software/hardware is the quickest, both for programming and operating. I think the build quality is excellent with great durability. I like the feel of the faders, both the action and the throw/spacing. I also like the fact that it is accepted that in the real world bad things can happen in handling and so the consoles are designed to be opened up for maintenance so you can get the show happening. If necessary you can even grab a basic PC power supply and install one in an emergency. They are a friendly and approachable company and support is excellent.

[ceecrb1]

RE the mq60 screen...

I have never had any issues with its size... more it's viewing angle..

I either need to be stood over the console or I need to wedge up the back of the entire console..

Corporate days where you are sat at a standard table on a standard chair with the console infront of you, can end up with you arching your back all day leaning over th console.

 

Other than that.. all I can say is that I am entirely happy with the versatility of it.

My choice was a little "biased" but in an "out of my hands" way. Most if not all the local companies around me are using chamsys in some way or form, be it with a laptop and generic artnet node, pc-wings, custom consoles etc we have created quite a comunity of chamsys operators with in the area who all look after each other.. I also live just a 20 minute drive from spain's distribuitor.

It was more simple for me to "go with the flow" and always have backup/extra gear at hand from the people I know.

 

I did even create a similar post to this one before I spent my money... I also looked into titan etc and to be honest the choice was very close between avo and chamsys, it was purely the local "support" (other users etc) that swayed me to make the final descicion.

 

Even then there are still days that I wonder if I made the right choice or if having both would be the "best option" depending on day... but that would be an entirely unneccesary expense.

 

In the end, My best advice is really sit down and get into the pc versions /demos and give them a true fair trial at home. I tried to make the same "imaginary gig" on each one.

So you will end up picking the one you like programming and opping best... the one that will bend to your mental workflow seamlessly..... Really, this is the most important part, as it is you who will be opping it at silly-o-clock AM tired and unable to think.. it needs to be "automatic" and simple, rather than a battle.

At the time I bought my mq60 I would say I had equal show time with my pc wing and the companies pearl..

 

EG for me, personally my mind just deals better with cue lists in a playback better than avo's style... But I also preffered avos exec buttons which chamsys dont have.. so I just chose which of those I could work around.... with chamsys I could buy accessories to give me the exec buttons, with avo you cant alter how the base system is programmed.

[Don Allen]

If you are going to use led's then in Australia I would choose an ETC Element ETC Element as it shows you what colour is being output by the led fixtures. However in the UK you have a wider choice of brands. Look at recent posts in the Blue Room on choosing desks.

[Judge]

@mark_s it sounds like you have had unfortunate problems with Titan which are most unusual as nic has mentioned. I have been using a Titan Mobile for a couple of years now running the same show in various venues around the world, on an old Dell touchscreen laptop. The only issues I have ever had have been one random freeze of the software (not during a show luckily) and rather a long time taken to save shows, and update changes sometimes but I believe that this is down to the hardware. I have also run a Sapphire which had none of these issues.

Mark, you also mentioned the cue stack on Titan being lacking or problematic. My experience with running theatre type shows on cue stack has been limited to ETC, Strand, ChamSys and Avo so not fully qualified here, but since Titan V7 the cue stack is really good and it has completely turned around the reputation of the company as being fit for purpose in this area. Timing functions and move in dark all work really well and make running shows a pleasure. I have never found it lacking in anything. I'd like bigger chunkier go button, but no big deal.

I think that MagicQ is possibly faster and and more intuitive to add and modify cues, certainly if you are more used to older theater style desks - but its not an issue once you become familiar - only if you are constantly hopping between one system and another.

Anttech, you seem to have somehow got a Jands Vista i3 into your list. No doubt a very capable machine but very idiosyncratic and expensive and really lacking in physical controls. But go ahead and get a demo. It may be that it really works for you.

[emountford15]

I would look suggest tiger touch 2! Its a great console , although might not be suited to theatre work! I feel the avo software if more user friendly (and nicer to look at!). Have a demo of both of them , and dont limit your self! You never know , Zero 88 could launch great software in a few years , And it becomes the new ion!

[anttech]

Judge - why are you surprised to see a jands in the list? A friend of mine swears by them.

[timsabre]

Judge - why are you surprised to see a jands in the list? A friend of mine swears by them.

 

They are less common in the UK. Big in Aus and NZ.

[Judge]

I have tried to get on with Vista as I have heard many good things about them. Just not suited to me I guess. Clever software for sure - the control of effects and offsets from the timeline is very impressive - but clunky hardware and a control surface which is poorly designed.

This could be because of where I come from. I really do not think that a lighting desk needs to look and behave just like a PC. However if you took an intelligent person who is very familiar with computers but who had never seen or operated a lighting desk before, into a TV studio or concert - showed them a Jands Vista i3 and said -"this is how we control all those lights" - they may well totally get it right away.

Equally there are probably people who have struggled with the foibles and syntax of ETC or MA and then used a Vista and had a realisation that it does not have to be like that - and this is a better way or working.

So it is definately a desk that you'll need to spend some time with before you can say one way or another. As are they all. Luckily most have sofware simulators you can play with on a desktop.

[JFeenstra]

Wounder if I could get some feedback on what latest 24/48 channel lighting desk would you choose?

would you keep with the Jands Event 24/48 or would you go with another type..

 

have two old Jands events 24/48ch desk that we are looking to replace but need a like for like.

 

be great to see what what you think..

 

take a look at the Jands StageCL

 

http://jands.com/stage-cl/

 

 

Moderation: This reply comes from an answer to a post resurrecting an old topic, that we missed. I've moved the content here because it didn't really warrant the resurrection, apart from mentioning Jands. However - please forgive the lack of the question - it's back on the 2nd, but the quote contains the contents. Sorry for the confusion it's caused - we should have noticed earlier! Paul, Mods

[anttech]

The jands stagecl is designe for LEDs and is not a 24/48 channels desk.

 

I have always quite likes the jands event as they have sub masters as well as cue.

 

If you need to change then there are a few options,

Zero88 - jester

Strand - 200 plus

Etc - smartfade

 

I have used both the zero88 jester and the strand 200.

I find the strand quite a plastic feeling desk. The jester feels and is very solid. All three of these desks can be picked up for between £800 - £1200.

Hope that helps

[Brian]

Etc - smartfade

 

+1 from a personal owner of a Smartfade ML

[James Remo]

Looking at the 24/48 question, can I suggest you take a look at the LSC maxim. It's been a few years since I touched a smartfade but if memory serves correctly you can't put a fade time on a standard memory, quite an omission!

[JFeenstra]

The jands stagecl is designe for LEDs and is not a 24/48 channels desk.

 

while you are correct that it's not a 24/48 style console (in the sense of 2x 24 faders in two banks), it does handle more channels than one

 

24 fixtures total (not to be confused with 24 channels), and will run conventional fixtures just the same.

 

with a little programming custom fixtures in v1.3, you could run 120 dimmer channels off it pretty easily, with individual control for each dimmer (you could run more dimmers through multipatching if required). 80% of them will be on encoders instead of faders

[richardlambert]

Just my 2p…

 

Having used a Zero88 Orb XF extensively (and receiving training on said desk), I honestly would not touch one with a barge pole.

 

In fairness to Z88, they're trying to make it a very powerful and flexible system - which in all honesty, it is - but it's the HUGE amounts of bugs, glitches and silly little mistakes in the software that make it truly atrocious. We're running the latest software, and yes, they have implemented some pretty impressive features (kind of copying MA2 in some ways), but NONE of them work properly.

 

If anyone wants more details or to discuss, feel free to PM me as I don't want to slag them off on a public forum, but I feel it's important that people see the console from a users POV.

 

On a better note, I'd always always always go for the TT2.. Having used both Titan and MQ, my personal opinion is the Titan is much better. It's just more sleek… Granted the cuestacking is not exactly brilliant (something that MQ excels on), but for busking and 80% of the kind of thing I do, Titan fits the bill better for me.

 

But as everyone else has said, it's personal preference and you ideally need to have a hands-on 'play' with each console in question to make an informed decision http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

I would suggest asking for a demo on the Orb XF as it's truly amazing! I don't agree with what Max Jones has written here