New Desk from PreSonus

[the kid]

What about those lumpy touch screens that may or may not appear ??

[MarkPAman]

So far I think they only have fixed position "lumps". May be OK for buttons. I guess a grid of very small ones could make up something that gives you tactile positioning feedback.

[ross1c]

Interesting for instal projects.

[OneEng]

Competition is good for the consumer .... and advances in technology. I am glad to see a strong market in this area.

 

As for the applicability of tablet mixing ......

 

There are simply too many use cases where tablet based mixing is better than a physical console mixing. Many smaller venues don't have room for a mix position in the room. Even those that do frequently will not allow you to run a snake across the room.

 

The tablet interface is going to rapidly evolve over the next few years and many of the complaints people have with any of the current UI's will go away. On the other hand, no amount of design changes are going to make it possible for someone to walk around a venue holding their 32 channel mixer in their hands ;)

 

I totally agree with the PEQ on a touch screen. This workflow is night and day better than using physical controls on a console ..... for me at least.

 

A rack mounted digital mixer is smaller, and lighter than a physical console making load in and load out faster and easier as well as occupying a much smaller footprint on stage. This is extremely valuable to small band operations.

 

Perhaps only large venues and festivals will have physical consoles in the future?

[dosxuk]

There are simply too many use cases where tablet based mixing is better than a physical console mixing. Many smaller venues don't have room for a mix position in the room. Even those that do frequently will not allow you to run a snake across the room.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think either of those are an argument for tablets. They may be an argument against big analogue surfaces, but there's no reason someone couldn't design a full physical surface, 19" rack sized, with 16+ 100mm faders, loads of knobs and buttons, a touch screen and so on, that communicates wirelessly to a stage rack brain. Clever design could make it easily possible to walk out front with a proper 32+ channel digital desk at the start of the show.

 

Perhaps only large venues and festivals will have physical consoles in the future?

 

The idea of having to mix a band I've never heard before, with no soundcheck, a five minute changeover and no real chance to line check on nothing but a tablet fills me with dread that I'll eventually bump into a promoter who thinks it's possible.

 

Tablets are great for wandering around during a show/soundcheck, but I can't see anything positive about them as your primary controls.

[smalljoshua]

We recently did the music stages at the Great Dorset Steam Fair, asides from the main stage. All were stage-side mixing. I had old and new engineers, one of which hadn't ever mixed "away" from the desk before. By the end of the week, all were converts. All had access to a physical desk side of stage but preferred the tablet experience. One managed most of the week without touching the console at all.

 

Josh

[Shez]

I would have thought that in that scenario, it's the fact they were out front rather than stuck on stage that was the significant factor, not having a tablet vs a physical surface.

[GR1]

I agree with Shez that being out front was the most important factor. Give them the choice of the desk out front or a tablet and you would have a meaningful idea of how many were so called 'converts'. I suspect many of them would describe their experience as making the best of a bad job,

[MarkPAman]

Even a couple of years ago, I was usually able to argue the case for a desk somewhere out front at weddings, balls etc. Now it seems, I'm expected to use a tablet every time.

 

Tablets are a great extra tool, but (except for very simple shows), they are not a replacement.

[Stuart91]

there's no reason someone couldn't design a full physical surface, 19" rack sized, with 16+ 100mm faders, loads of knobs and buttons, a touch screen and so on, that communicates wirelessly to a stage rack brain. Clever design could make it easily possible to walk out front with a proper 32+ channel digital desk at the start of the show.

 

The main reason something like that doesn't exist is the sheer cost of development. With an iPad or other tablet a lot of the hard work is done already, so development for the manufacturer is much easier than starting from scratch.

 

Plus a 19" sized unit is going to have to sit on a table or something, it certainly won't be handheld. That might be OK for a wedding or corporate show, but could be a liability at many gigs where the beer is flying in the audience.

 

The idea of having to mix a band I've never heard before, with no soundcheck, a five minute changeover and no real chance to line check on nothing but a tablet fills me with dread

 

I've spent a fair chunk of my summer doing just that. Admittedly, they haven't been hugely complicated line-ups, but up to maybe 24 inputs it's relatively manageable. Is it as good as being out front with a full surface in front of you? No. Would the customers be prepared to spend any extra to make a FOH mix position happen? No.

[dbuckley]

One would have thought that the Behringer X-Touch would make an adequate remote mix surface:

 

http://www.behringer.com/assets/X-TOUCH_Top.jpg

 

If, of course, it's actually shipping yet...

[Stuart91]

One would have thought that the Behringer X-Touch would make an adequate remote mix surface:

 

The biggest drawback is that it's mains powered (there's an IEC inlet on the back) so you're not going to have the mobility that's available with a tablet.

 

It would be very nice to sit one of them beside a desk to use for DCAs or reverb returns, so you always have them to hand no matter which layer you have the main surface on.

[dbuckley]

I agree it needs mains power, but if its going to be plonked on a small table and used as if it were a real mixer but smaller, I don't see that as a significant drawback. It'll also need connectivity, as it isn't a wireless solution. A DiGiCo SD11 would make the perfect table remote, but there's a bit of a cart / horse transposition error here :)

 

Even with a table remote, one still has the option of the tablet should one wish to wander unfettered.

[the kid]

What about those accidental multi touches as well ? you dont want to lean across and suddenly blast everything then mute it all jumping back. Vista have the stylus pen for their bigger desks, that would be move logical to be using for a big touch screen with lots of "features"

[S&L]

a couple of things to throw into the Fray here:

 

1. though I work theatre shows the majority of my work is in bars, some of them small. very occasionally I have to mix stage side but in the vast majority of cases, I can find a place out front, find power close by and enough space for a full x32 (or in days gone by a 24 channel analogue AND a rack. And I can usually build very quickly a den that is resistant to ingress of punters and their liquid refreshments. the secrets to being able to do this have nothing to do with technology but rather depend on

(a) working well with the artist, serially, and getting them to understand why I need to be out front.

(b) getting to know the venue management, often advancing a new venue and agreeing what is possible - in 50% of cases where I am discussing with a publican, he/she will say 'when we have had someone do that before, they usually sit over there'. the amount of co-operation you get varies but in most cases they are at least tolerant and become more so provided they hear a quality result.

If I can do this in bars of less than 100 capacity with a full size console, then it's not the equipment that is relevant so much as the ability of the engineer to be an effective negotiator and communicator - surely a pre-requisite to the job in any case! - I will concede though that tenacity plays a part.

(c ) spending money in the establishment concerned, particularly on the first couple of visits, goes a long way to demonstrating that far from taking up space for customers you are actually contributing to profit.

 

2. I use a full size console because it's a 'one size fits all' solution because finance for myself and these jobs is limited. more than half of these tight squeeze jobs could satisfactorily be done with a qu16, x32 producer or something similar if I could afford a 2nd console. (though it's amazing how attached one can get to electronic scribble strips!).

 

3. for me working with a tablet is too restrictive - on a console as a song starts I can un-mute reverb, flip to reverb mix, adjust reverb on the mandolin, flip back to main mix, select vocal channel, trim back gain, then adjust gate, go back to the main mix in time for the instrumental lift after the third bar of the song - if it can be done that fast on an ipad, I certainly haven't been able to achieve it - much less do that almost blind - i.e. while watching the artist and just glancing at the console.

 

4. the biggest logistical issue with these sorts of shows for me is the multicore routing. (see above for advancing a venue) if I could drop a qu16 or similar at a table of my choice with an interface box that sent signals rapidly back and forth to stage then THAT would be liberating. to me a tablet is much more of a prison than a multicore tethered console.