D&b rigs

[Guest AdamJames]

As it has been said by many people on this forum, buy the best speakers you can.

 

Amp wise its interesting; my folosphy is if you are using systems like C7 stack etc, then use the specified amps, like D12s.

 

Otherwise in terms of boxes, then go for QSC, Crown and Studiomaster - you can do a lot worse! #cough cough# Phonic and DAP Audio.

 

Heres a fun test for you Dave; drive a pair of Phonics and C7 (or whatever) at the same time, stand behine the C7 then the phonic and tell us which one is louder.

 

Answer Phonic.

 

Why? Becuase NO sound comes out the back of D&B speakers, because of the efficientcy it all comes out of the front.

 

Also, with Q7s, C7s, etc take off the material at the front and look at the pure precision - it amazed me!

 

Sorry about the spelling.

[BlueShift]

Yeah its finalised

 

gonna be getting the d&b amps

 

although since this is an install, im gonna try and save some cash by sourcing some P1200 amps instead because we dont need the flexibility of the D12

[Guest AdamJames]

Hmm are P1200s still made?

[BlueShift]

Hmm are P1200s still made?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, but they are available from some hire companies who are moving up to the d12 range.

 

personally I think that d&b will release something similar again because they are prohibitivly expensive for this type of fixed install system where the flexibity of a d12 is not required.

[Guest AdamJames]

Too right.

 

I liked the idea of the modules, but now when you have the D12, who could as for more?

 

In fact I haven't seen any amps quite like the D12 - has anyone else?

[BlueShift]

Too right.

 

I liked the idea of the modules, but now when you have the D12, who could as for more?

 

In fact I haven't seen any amps quite like the D12 - has anyone else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well there are lots of companies that employ similar techniques of having compulsory controller units that are used with their speakers to do some DSP and have driver protection stuff built in. Perhaps a more well known one would be the Nexo TD controllers and the integrated amps they have started building along those lines

[Rob]

Heres a fun test for you Dave; drive a pair of Phonics and C7 (or whatever) at the same time, stand behine the C7 then the phonic and tell us which one is louder.

 

Answer Phonic.

 

Why? Becuase NO sound comes out the back of D&B speakers, because of the efficientcy it all comes out of the front.

 

Also, with Q7s, C7s, etc take off the material at the front and look at the pure precision - it amazed me! 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What total BS! How can you compare Phonic and D&B??!

[Guest AdamJames]

What total BS! How can you compare Phonic and D&B??!

 

I am simply comparing a system amp to a foreign amp. Maybe some people think when they have spend so much on speakers they should go for a cheap amp.

 

The makes are not really the point, the driving capabilities are.

 

Failing that, you could stick to lighting? :unsure:

[BlueShift]

now now, no fighting

 

But the issue here is not that QSC and Crown make cheap amps - they are some of the best in the business, its just that in this particular situation they arent going to get the best out of the d&b's - and the system is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

and to be clear, I wasnt trying to get a cheap amp to drive the d&b's just because a lot of cash went on the boxes themselves. On the contrary, a lot of high end kit is driven with crown and qsc amps - I know they make quality amplifiers and so this seemed like an avenue worth exploring.

[Guest AdamJames]

Yes.

 

Crown and QSC are good amps. But not good at all for d&B.

 

The only D&B speakers that can be driven via foreign amps, are Max monitors.

 

Not trying to be nasty Rob, but please don't tell me I speak BS when you clearly don't understand the basics. If lighting is your passion, do that, and keep away from sound. If I buy any D&B (with no offence), I certainly would not hire it to you.

 

Learn the basics, go on an SF training day, and when you are 25/30, come back and prove me wrong.

[Solstace]

To resolve a couple of things once and for all (and to add to what Blue-Shift has already said so far):

 

Yes, Crown and QSC Amps are very nice pieces of kit to have. No, they don't cost as much as the dedicated D&B amps. Why? DSP/protection issues aside, Crown and QSC shift their boxes in huge quantities, so among other things the overheads (not to mention the amount of pure R&D) to be paid per unit will be smaller. "Economies of scale" I think was the phrase I learned at school many moons ago.

 

Without wishing to offend or patronise, I would suggest that the Phonic/D&B comparison was a case of presenting two extremes to make a point. As I'm sure many of us here will agree, the manufacturers are not in the same league. However, both are known and perhaps both have a place in their respective markets, no matter how much we would all like our clients to have the money to hire/purchase the "nicer" kit.

 

Oh and please, let's play nice, and not start the whole noiseboy vs lampie wars again - it's worse than being at school!! Not everyone is going to know that Amp A isn't best paired with Speaker B, or that Speaker B is designed to provide some kind of feedback to Amp B in the interests of driver/hearing protection. Heck, most noise-boys I know have no knowledge of how/why D&B gear works the way it does! :unsure:

[Rob]

Heres a fun test for you Dave; drive a pair of Phonics and C7 (or whatever) at the same time, stand behine the C7 then the phonic and tell us which one is louder.

 

Answer Phonic.

 

Why? Becuase NO sound comes out the back of D&B speakers, because of the efficientcy it all comes out of the front.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where does this "fun test" say anything about comparing different amps? All is proves is that D&B make far superior speakers to Phonic. Funny that the boxes with a few extra 00's on the price tag should be more directional really. :unsure:

 

I might know a fair bit more about "the basics" than you think. Big Dave certainly does.

 

Pin 5 on EP5?

 

Pin 5 is not used.

 

We ALWAYS use 4 core cable.

 

'Nuff said.

[Simon Lewis]

Becuase NO sound comes out the back of D&B speakers, because of the efficientcy it all comes out of the front.

 

erm, that's not efficiency.... that's directivity ;-) Efficiency tells you how good the speaker is at converting electrical energy into acoustic energy. It's also different from sensitivity.

 

If you are concerned about LF sound pressure levels behind a cabinet, try creating a cardioid bass system!

 

Pin 5 on EP5?

 

Haven't played with d&b since John Taylor lent me a Q series rig last year, but I thought pin 5 was used as a sense lead? Which was one of the reasons for teh speaker system being so good!

 

Moral of the story is that we use electroacoustic systems, and several manufacturers have decided that the best way to optimise the complete electrical, mechanical and acoustic parameters is to engineer the whole system, not just the loudspeaker itself.

 

Whether it's the d&b approach, or active boxes with dsp/remote control the goal of a coherent defined coverage with appropriate protection will only be achieved if you use the systems as the manufacturer designed it. Third party DSPs may get close, but won't be perfect!

 

Simon

[BlueShift]

Becuase NO sound comes out the back of D&B speakers, because of the efficientcy it all comes out of the front.

 

erm, that's not efficiency.... that's directivity ;-) Efficiency tells you how good the speaker is at converting electrical energy into acoustic energy. It's also different from sensitivity.

 

If you are concerned about LF sound pressure levels behind a cabinet, try creating a cardioid bass system!

 

Pin 5 on EP5?

 

Haven't played with d&b since John Taylor lent me a Q series rig last year, but I thought pin 5 was used as a sense lead? Which was one of the reasons for teh speaker system being so good!

 

Moral of the story is that we use electroacoustic systems, and several manufacturers have decided that the best way to optimise the complete electrical, mechanical and acoustic parameters is to engineer the whole system, not just the loudspeaker itself.

 

Whether it's the d&b approach, or active boxes with dsp/remote control the goal of a coherent defined coverage with appropriate protection will only be achieved if you use the systems as the manufacturer designed it. Third party DSPs may get close, but won't be perfect!

 

Simon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pin 5 is indeed the sensedrive pin. However, it is only used on the subs and becomes more necessary the longer your cable runs are because it basically compensates for increased impedance due to long cable runs. The amp compensates for this by reducing its output impedance to make sure those thumping 18" LF drivers are getting plenty of juice! :unsure:

 

pin 5 isnt used on the tops though, so there is no difference between NL4 and EP5 tops. However, sensedrive needs the 3rd pin (the subs use 2+/2- on NL4 or 3,4,5 on EP5) to function and so the NL4 subs wont have this feature.

 

Cheers

[Big Dave]

Moral of the story is that we use electroacoustic systems, and several manufacturers have decided that the best way to optimise the complete electrical, mechanical and acoustic parameters is to engineer the whole system, not just the loudspeaker itself.

 

Whether it's the d&b approach, or active boxes with dsp/remote control the goal of a coherent defined coverage with appropriate protection will only be achieved if you use the systems as the manufacturer designed it. Third party DSPs may get close, but won't be perfect!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Simons hit the nail on the head there, couldn't of put it better myself.

 

If you want some 2nd hand P1200's, contact me off board as I know where there are quite a few for sale. However, you may have trouble finding P1200's for the install series.