Andrew C Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I may be way off base here, but wouldn't a desk profile that gave the user 4 "controls", but spat out 3 DMX levels be better than a hardware box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Yup! Not many older desks let you write personalities that do that though - you can do that sort of thing on a Congo or a Vector, but not a Spark or a HogII Converting to HSI would mean that full 'colour' would actually be at 50% intensity, 100% saturation, as 100% Intensity is obviously white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 @Andrew C: It would be better if the fixtures did it! But, as Tomo says, only the latest consoles allow 'virtual' controls. It is a lot of extra processing for older desks and that assumes software can be updated. The majority of LED fixtures out there don't have separate dimmer controls. The demand for a third party box that took processing away from the desk would be huge. @Tomo: As I understand it the main reason for using HSI (as with the AC units) is for video compatibility. But for more traditional lighting I think RGB is more friendly. My main reason for wanting the extra dimmer channel would be to allow the use of palettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Personally, I think that HSI is a very nice colour model - I'm thinking that it may be possible to stretch the model to mean that 100% Intensity = 50% intensity when we don't want white, but does when we do. Basically deforming the double-cone into a cylinder. I think I'll have to do some testing - I've got a three-channel LED dimmer knocking around somewhere, so I'll have to try out some colour models. As for video compatibility - if you're that keen, you could go to a YUV model as used in PAL - Brightness, B-Y, R-Y - although that feels very clumsy to me! Making a box that does either shouldn't be excessively difficult though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 RGB+I seems a pretty good model from a lighting point of view, and very easy to implement on 3 channel fixtures. The 'virtual intensity' chanell scales the other parameters. From an operators point of view, you select the colour then set the brightness - much the same as a scroller or conventional CMY fixture. Infact, you could even extend the model so that it takes a CMY signal rather than RGB. They are, after all, opposites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Exactly Peter. You set colour and then brightness. For me this makes most sense for operating. I also like the idea of CMY conversion although I have now got used to the two models and combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 For what it's worth, 12 of the Thomann PAR56s have just arrived - all badged Eurolight, having 5 DMX channels. All work fine. One has a dead LED and another has a red LED instead of a Blue one. Oh, and one has a washer rattling about inside. I'm quite pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Paul, according to this site, the Eurolite pars occupy 6 DMX channels. Are yours a different model to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peternewman Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I don't know about Paul's but certainly all the Eurolite LED PARs I've had from Thomann have been five channel ones. With channel one selecting either standard RGB or a couple of colour fades and chases, channels 2 through 4 doing standard RGB and channel 5 doing sound to light. Mine are product code number 51913620 from Eurolite. PN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Threader Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Its been quite interesting working through all the posts - only to find no mention of the Palco 3. Used on the Stones Tour and by the Beeb for TV, these fixtures are probably as good as it gets at the present. Different lens sets are available, we use 25 deg & 40 deg there are others. A very even colour right through the diameter, with a circular soft-edged beam. 8 channels of DMX control including dimmer, shutter(strobe), white balance and CTO correction. They're waterproof to IP65, so you can light outside in the rain! With the 25 deg lens fitted you get a performance equivalent to a CP62 (give or take). The open white performance is poorer than a CP62, but when you move to deeper colours the balance swings towards the Palco. Visit our website Gradav to see pictures and a download for the Palco and the Thomas Pixelline 1044. Full manuals for each are available on our download page. While it makes sense to look at the cheaper models, its worth looking at the expensive stuff to see what's possible at present with a larger budget. With regard to colour matching exactly - which is all but impossible, even with fixtures from the same batch, let alone units with different 'burn' times - its worth remembering that CMY mixing using filters as in wash lamps can't guarantee to match either . This is why there is a gap in the market for modern fixtures using real filter eg ADB Warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 The Thomann ones look like this in the box - the part number is the same as Peter reportedhttp://www.eastanglianradio.com/box.jpgthe spec sayshttp://www.eastanglianradio.com/ledspec.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hi, I also ordered 6 LED PAR from Thomann and only got Showtec devices with 6 DMX channels (R, G, B, Color Macro, Strobe, Color effects). The Thomann article number was #188397... BR,Earl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empyfree Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Graham, We've bought some Palco's, and hired yours once or twice... I think they're a little outside the scope of this discussion though, This thread is more based on the relative merits of "Par can" shaped LED solutions. On the other hand, the Palco's are really very good! have you tried the mobile version, i.e. with pan and tilt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 11 out of the 12 up and running - one on its way back to Germany as DMX doesn't work - spoke too soon. They do, however do a pretty good cyc wash with some frost in the runners. I'm a bit embarassed to say that they are wired as 36 separate channels, ignoring the effects and control channels althogether. Time ran out for experimenting with the fixture library files - and this will do fine for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Threader Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Graham, We've bought some Palco's, and hired yours once or twice... I think they're a little outside the scope of this discussion though, This thread is more based on the relative merits of "Par can" shaped LED solutions. On the other hand, the Palco's are really very good! have you tried the mobile version, i.e. with pan and tilt? Hiya The thread is "... how good are they ..." and so I thought it worth mentioning, but I take your point about the market being very different. The thing that I forgot to mention was the lack of a 'step' up from black, and no 'step' down into black. So many fixtures suffer in a way that shows and can ruin subtle fades. The Pixelline 1044 are pretty good in this area as well. The mobile Paclo isn't that mobile! Its designed as an architectural fitting eg for the Bingo you can move them onto a small area, but for a concert you can spread the light across the stage. So they move. but very slowly. I would suggest of no use at all for shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.