LED Pars

[paulears]

Seeing how the price has come down - I've been searching around and came accross an australian firm on ebay selling chinese kit - most things I found had 150ish leds, but one wass rated at 50W and seemed to have loads more in concentric rings. Cheap, but shipping cost not only expensive for <14 days, or still steep for 60 days! (not guaranteed times).

 

One thing struck me, even though all the available specs are pretty weak. They are all very wide 45 degrees often quoted - so plenty used for washing could be ok. The snag is until somebody actually produces some photmetric data it is all very subjective - and although they're in par cans, they are not replacements. I'd like to see how they compare with 500W linear floods - that would be useful. They all seem to have different DMX specs - why do some need 5chs, others have 2 - presumably intensity and hue. Mixing and matching these is going to be very difficult. Buying a bunch now, then adding more is going to be damn near impossible, as next years will be brighter and cheaper still.

[Guest lightnix]

Prices are coming down, it's true and I've been looking around for suitable webshop candidates for some time now. I'm not knocking any particular manufacturer or reatiler, but so far I haven't really been impressed by the general quality of the cheaper units. The LEDs often don't appear to have been binned (i.e. graded), leading to noticeable colour and intensity differences between them. While this may not affect the overall output of the units, it doesn't inspire my long-term confidence.

 

I also don't like the idea that, at the moment, you effectively have to buy a whole new lantern just to replace a lamp :** laughs out loud **:

 

What I'm waiting for is simple replacement LED PAR lamps, in single colour or RGB; simple hard power or DMX-dimmable; low (12-24V) or high (mains) voltage, low ("normal" / 0.5W) or high (1W / 3W) power LEDs, with a smart PSU option (à la OptiLED). The ultimate for me would be a "Touring" model which could just be run from standard dimmers, (again at any local voltage), with no need for DMX, and sealed to a high IP rating, but I fear that may be some years away (at least).

[Jamtastic3]

one thing struck me - the camera takes VERY good pics in low light. Better than mine!

 

It could be that the photographer used short time exposure which would enchance all the contrast and brightness attributes of the scene being taken - I'm guessing this mind, looking at the blurred smoke and gobos on the wall and some blurred faces in the crowd. Also with my digital camera, it brightens the picture more, the longer the time exposure is depending on the light.

[i_hate_fisicks]

The ultimate for me would be a "Touring" model which could just be run from standard dimmers, (again at any local voltage), with no need for DMX, and sealed to a high IP rating, but I fear that may be some years away (at least).

 

But surely that completely defeats the point of such things. The great thing about LED fixtures is that you don't need a huge infrastructure of dimmers, socapex etc, you can just power and DMX them, job's done. I don't see the point in an LED par lamp!

[Guest lightnix]

Well, it would save a lot of DMX cabling for a start, but yes - it could be a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I'm just into the idea of direct, plug-and-play replacements, that's all :** laughs out loud **:

 

It's the end users that will finally decide what survives in the market.

[Nick S]

They all seem to have different DMX specs - why do some need 5chs, others have 2 - presumably intensity and hue. Mixing and matching these is going to be very difficult.

 

From experience using PixelPars, generally speaking it's 3 x RGB, 1 x intensity, and the remaining channels are used for master/slave effects. I've never used straight forward LED PAR replacements, but the PixelPars practically saved my life for the whole time in that venue (it was a cabaret venue, and we made a lot of technicians very happy by being able to provide any kind of wash effect).

 

I'm not entirely sure that the ideal solution is to simply try to fit LEDs into existing PAR designs, which is one of the reasons why I like the PixelPars so much. I've heard some horror stories about cheap LED par replacements (and the PixelPars certainly were not cheap), although I'm sure for clubs and dances they'd be perfectly satisfactory.

[Hambone]

IMO, the only LED lighting currently comparable in brightness to 'traditional' lighting utilises Luxeon LEDs. They're currently quite pricey, but like everything electronic, will be sure to fall in the near future.

[Ekij]

I also don't like the idea that, at the moment, you effectively have to buy a whole new lantern just to replace a lamp :** laughs out loud **:

But they are LEDs; you don't have to replace the lamp ... ever.

LEDs have a life expectancy of 100000 hours (11years) by which time their intensity has dropped to 50% (but they are still working). Even of you ran them continuously 24/7 for 11 years you would probably want to replace the unit at that time too anyway (for a newer, brighter, smaller, more efficient, funkier one).

[the kid]

But the thing is if you get a cheeper one they might have the 100000 lamp hours but if you have a dry joint, or just a bad LED (cheep goods, cheep led's) or something on it you will need a new one.

[peternewman]

In a rather frivolous move I bought two of the Eurolite LED Par 56's, so here's a quick attempt at a review.

 

The build quality is fairly cheap unsurprisingly, the brackets for the gel frame were a bit bent, interestingly it does come with a gel frame, which has a wideish mesh across it, and the brackets also mean you could make up solid sheet metal sections to protect the front, which is probably necessary for transit as the LED's and PCB are totally exposed with the gel frame removed!

 

They take 5 DMX channels each, two for control and 3 for RGB, they also don't have an intensity channel. The beam angle seemed quite narrow (maybe 20-30 degrees or a bit less). They seem okay and still have the unpleasant brightness of say a Chroma-Q Colour block or PixelLine.

 

I'll try and post a comparison of some sort with something, maybe a mains birdie or a 60w lamp as that's all I can really get to for now, I can however do the 500w flood comparison when I go home in a few weeks time.

 

I'm off to sleep now but I'll post an update/edit soon hopefully.

 

HTH

 

PN

[Mush]

I'll try and post a comparison of some sort with something, maybe a mains birdie or a 60w lamp as that's all I can really get to for now, I can however do the 500w flood comparison when I go home in a few weeks time.

 

I'm off to sleep now but I'll post an update/edit soon hopefully.

 

HTH

 

PN

 

Thanks for the mini review Peter, photies when you get a chance would be very interesting, even more so of you can get acccess to approx matching gels to the RGB LEDs for the birdie....

 

Thanks Again

[Guest lightnix]

I also don't like the idea that, at the moment, you effectively have to buy a whole new lantern just to replace a lamp :unsure:

But they are LEDs; you don't have to replace the lamp ... ever.

LEDs have a life expectancy of 100000 hours (11years) by which time their intensity has dropped to 50% (but they are still working)...

Don't worry, I am well-versed with the advantages and benefits of LEDs :D My point is: why throw away perfectly good parcans? Surely such wastefulness negates the environmental benefits of LEDs.

 

As the kid points out...

...if you get a cheeper one they might have the 100000 lamp hours but if you have a dry joint, or just a bad LED (cheep goods, cheep led's) or something on it you will need a new one.

... and he's quite right. There's no point in mounting everlasting light sources on poor quality circuit boards and stuffing them into poor quality units.

 

Let's face it: generally speaking, there is a direct correlation between price and quality.

 

Another point worth bearing in mind is that although LEDs are low-heat devices, they are also quite heat-sensitive and good heat management is essential in high power (i.e. Luxeon) and/or LED clusters and arrays; otherwise you are into seriously reduced lifetimes (the city of Los Angeles found this out when $20m of LED traffic signalling fell over on them, because it had got too warm). To my mind, the standard PAR64 can, with it's ample convection holes and aluminium construction, would make a heat-friendly host for an LED lamp of that size.

 

Anyway,surely it's got to be cheaper to buy replacement LED lamp by itself, rather than a whole new lantern. Wouldn't simple, affordable PAR64 replacement lamps help smaller companies get on board the LED "train" without having to make a major investment in new kit? Apart from that, the cans could always be relamped with tungsten, if / where necessary; LED lighting may have a lot to offer, but it is by no means ideal for every situation - just try lighting food or a buffet with RGB LED cans and you'll see what I mean ;)

[Ekij]

Another point worth bearing in mind is that although LEDs are low-heat devices, they are also quite heat-sensitive and good heat management is essential in high power and/or LED clusters and arrays <snip>

This is probably why the LED lamp is not removable from the lantern. It's bonded in for maximum heat dispersion.

 

Allignment is also more critical with LED lamps and probably needs to be set and fixed at the factory.

[J Pearce]

You reckon at that price they align each one at the factory?

[Ekij]

You reckon at that price they align each one at the factory?

Sure. They will have a fixture that aligns them all consistently (not necessarily correctly) :unsure:

I believe the heat dissipation is the main reason though.