Emmett45 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Hi all, In a forthcoming College production of Romeo & Juliet the director would like to use a blank firing pistol onstage. What's the protocol/paperwork/legal aspects of such an undertaking?? The cast member firing it will be under 18 if that makes any difference? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richb Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Save yourself a massive amount of grief and speak to an armourer (of which there are many here) to get chapter and verse on it. Also (and it wouldn't remove all risks) seriously consider using a sound effect instead of a firearm... There re many issues, and you should talk them through with a professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 It's funny this has come up on here My latest project is a 3d printed pistol that contains a 433MHz transmitter. When the trigger is pressed a receiver unit plays a WAV sound effect out of a line out and also sends a midi command (unit appears as a USB midi device). I'm building it for a production of Barnum (for when the ringmaster shoots out the lights) but my intention is then to rent it and also to make more firearms to go with it (this one is a wild west style revolver, and I already have a crossbow that's compatible). Part of the beauty of a 3d printed plastic model is that, as soon as it's picked up, it's very obviously a fake and also has the word "replica" moulded in to the case in 4 different locations. Obviously this doesn't solve the fact that from a distance it looks very real, and if you were to be seen walking around with it I suspect actions would proceed questions from the police. It does however all work in the favour of a risk assessment as long as the gun can be looked after and secured properly off stage. The project was driven by my dislike of blank firing stage guns - they just seem to destroy any kind of moment by making the whole audience jump and turn to their friend to have a chuckle about having jumped. Plus, blanks just don't sound like today's movie-going audiences expect a gun to sound like. Often a well produced sound effect can have a far better effect. A case in point being Tony's death in West Side Story. The whole piece builds to that moment and a nice reverberant, not-too-loud and dull gunshot is all it needs. Once you start going down that route though, getting the sound effect matched to the movement on stage is tricky if you've got a trigger-happy actor. The old trick being for them to follow you - they can react quicker to a sound than you can to a non-descript movement of an arm while second guessing if it was them taking the shot or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/etis20.pdf covers the main points. Frankly I wouldn't think it was worth the bother.There have been a number of quite serious accident with such items over the years, some discussed on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadingle Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 This is a simple one IMO. Blank firing pistol = pyro. Pyro is not to be used by under 18's. Intended user is under 18? Not used. If nothing else I'd be worried about the direction of the ejection port being under the control of the user. It's normally on top of the weapon, not the front, so the discharge is meant to go into a safe direction, but if it's being used "gangsta" style it could easily be directed to someone's face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owain Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 College production of Romeo & Juliet "gangsta" style I suppose anything's possible these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 When I did West Side Story in Woking a few years ago, we used a dummy firearm hired from my theatre and two blocks of wood which the DSM crashed together at the appropriate time. The dummy was kept in locked storage by the DSM, the two blocks of wood (which were hinged together) were by his desk. We had tried using a sound effect but it was too hard to match up with the sound operator at the back of the auditorium. We did consider ways of getting smoke to appear from the gun, but decided it was too much trouble as the scene was dark anyway. I doubt if anyone in the audience did not think it was a blank-firing pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 My latest project is a 3d printed pistol that contains a 433MHz transmitter. You will, of course, post pictures :) I agree with all you say about guns and effects. For a war piece a couple of years back I modified several replica rifles to have the aforementioned transmitters in them and it worked a treat. The rifles were subsequently sold on, and one wonders if the new owners even know there are transmitters in them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_P Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 That is a great idea, and would really help with a production I have coming up. I could even use the trigger to control a “shot at” prop. Are you using a complete commercial 433MHz module, or a Tx/Rx and “sort out your own data format” type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Just for the OP do go with Cedd and effects rather than blanks. We needed to shock the daylights out of a small audience for Behan's The Hostage so we got our friendly local armourer and Hechler und Koch dealer to do the job. He used a Magnum of some kind and something like a Webley. I didn't get near them so am not sure of specifics. I do know that when he fired 8 or 10 shots from off stage it nearly caused heart attacks, it stank the place out and nobody could hear what the cast said even if they weren't too stunned to speak. Ninja mentions discharge and these were big guns but even allowing for that the amount of "sparks" was surprising. They will take an eye out if not careful. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 bits of 75x18 timber hinged together, make one longer than the other to form a handle. easier to sync with the actor than a sound effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Are you using a complete commercial 433MHz module, or a Tx/Rx and "sort out your own data format" type?It's a commercial 433MHz transmitter and receiver. It can do 4 channels so I was toying with allowing one base unit to handle multiple firearms (selector switch on the firearm decides which pair of contact inputs it closes) so you just need one receiver with a correct sound effect for each firearm used in the show. That or I could even put a couple more switches on larger firearms so it can play, for instance, the sound of cocking when the visual action happens. All thoughts for the future! I tried making my own 433MHz modules for a set of candles I built (I hate it when actors can't turn off their battery powered candles together on cue). I accidentally managed to code it to have permanent carrier and managed to wipe out all of the car keyfob remotes from working in the theatre car park for a night! I've learnt since then! And the modules I'm using now are smaller than the receiver and arduino micro combination I was using anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Which modules are you using, Chris? Could be worth following up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunray Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Has it occurred to you that car remotes and other services could interfere with your system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Are these the units, by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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