PA Speaker(/Amp) Buying

[sunray]

11 hours ago, ANDYLASER said:

Get a wheel board for moving heavy items.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/flyht_pro_wheel_board_with_brakes.htm

 

On 5/30/2024 at 11:21 PM, richardash1981 said:

Transport

• By car – the whole system, including mixer etc., needs to go in a biggish saloon (at the moment speakers are strapped on the back seat along with Yamaha 01V mixer in a flight case).
• Loaded / unloaded by one (reasonably fit) person – nothing which needs a 2-person lift acceptable.
• Wheels don’t help a lot because everything has to lift into vehicle (and potentially up stairs etc.)

 

 

Edited June 11 by sunray

[richardash1981]

I think I've talked myself round to where you all started - a pair of EV ZLX12P, and consider a sub (maybe a second hand ZxA1-Sub) if needed.
Then I looked on ebay and found a pair of good looking ELX112P for the same money - wooden cabinets, similar ratings, slightly heavier. New price on these is significantly more, so worth it for a trade up? Going to have to sleep on it, and figure out collecting.

[richardash1981]

Update, I have now taken delivery of a pair of (brand new) EV ZLX-12P (the generation 1 model, no bluetooth) from Thomann (who have a rather good price for them). Will update when they have been out on a real job (could well be September now) but pleased so far. In the mean time, need to sort out some suitable leads - 1.5m IEC C13 mains leads supplied don't really work on 2.1m tall stands! I was quite impressed to get 1.5mm^2 (according to the markings) IEC leads from Thomann with them, they will definitely find a use.

[sunray]

1 hour ago, richardash1981 said:

Update, I have now taken delivery of a pair of (brand new) EV ZLX-12P (the generation 1 model, no bluetooth) from Thomann (who have a rather good price for them). Will update when they have been out on a real job (could well be September now) but pleased so far. In the mean time, need to sort out some suitable leads - 1.5m IEC C13 mains leads supplied don't really work on 2.1m tall stands! I was quite impressed to get 1.5mm^2 (according to the markings) IEC leads from Thomann with them, they will definitely find a use.

There is Hybrid cable available for mains and balanced audio, a cheaper alternative is nylon braided sheath. Both work well if you use a 'Standard set-up' on a regular basis.

[bruce]

hybrid cable can be ridiculously expensive, and unless you have a standard install, is invariably the wrong length 🙂 - and can be a pain to coil.

I dislike using PVC cables in this sort of situation - and the ones supplied are clearly too short. You could get some longer ones - 3m and 5m are not uncommon, and CPC will do 10m and 15m from stock - I prefer making up cables with some H05RR-f rubber cable, which coils and hangs much more nicely, rubber mains plugs and schurter IECs.

CPC do some nice pre-made ones with H05RRF rubber cable, which @Brian recommended to us - unfortunately they only seem to have 2m. https://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/p-uk13c15b2/uk-plug-13a-m-iec-c15-f-hot-c/dp/PL15204

 

 

[sunray]

1 hour ago, bruce said:

hybrid cable can be ridiculously expensive, and unless you have a standard install, is invariably the wrong length 🙂 - and can be a pain to coil.

I dislike using PVC cables in this sort of situation - and the ones supplied are clearly too short. You could get some longer ones - 3m and 5m are not uncommon, and CPC will do 10m and 15m from stock - I prefer making up cables with some H05RR-f rubber cable, which coils and hangs much more nicely, rubber mains plugs and schurter IECs.

CPC do some nice pre-made ones with H05RRF rubber cable, which @Brian recommended to us - unfortunately they only seem to have 2m. https://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/p-uk13c15b2/uk-plug-13a-m-iec-c15-f-hot-c/dp/PL15204

 

 

Yes it can be expensive hence the reason I mentioned braided sheath, over the years I've made many such cables for customers and one of the big advantages of the braid is the ease of forming loops etc to hang onto a hook on the stand/speaker etc. I agree getting the correct length is tricky unless the set-up is a standard format every time.

I know of 2 bands who have cables harnessed and if the format doesn't fit a venue they will expect a PA system to be provided or not take the booking.

Sadly CPC have reduced their range of 'proper' IEC cables to virtually non existant. I've fitted hundreds of C14/C13's and aim for H05RRF but as they are not nice connectors to fit I'd vastly prefer commercial moulded fittings. As such I'd buy them from CPC (IIRC 13A plug to C13 up to 15m long and C14 to C13 up to 20m long) and cut to length. The last I purchased from CPC was maybe 5-7 years ago and a number of them the rubber sheath started shrinking back from the connectors so I wonder if quality issues sounded their death knell.

I started using MCF in south London who claimed to make moulded cables but I suspect they imported them, originally the cable felt like RRF but foreign markings but even they turned to PVC of unpredictable flexibility. One of their guys lived down my way so more than once I had an evening rendezvous at the motorway junction.Unfortunately they vanished off the face of the earth early winter including their online presence.

[richardash1981]

As the band tour round different churches, we rarely do the same venue twice in 12 months, I suspect making up looms isn't a great idea. I was wondering about a set of say 5m cables to reach down to the ground and a short distance, maybe with right-angle connectors at the speaker end. Attaching more XLR cable to reach between two sides of stage to whichever (or both) is necessary is then no issue.
Slightly more complicated for mains, have to choose between 13A plug, IEC C13/C14, or 16A IEC 60309 Ceeform (which I am using for main supply and band power already) at the floor end.

[J Pearce]

I'd say that touring in different venues doesn't make looms pointless.

It often works well to have a hub location - often where the multicore breakout sits (often DSL or DSR - it could change venue to venue). Put your distro, RF receviers, and amps etc. here too.
Then have a loom that goes from each location back to here with signal and power.
So you might have a 20m, 10m, and 5m speaker looms (long for far, short for near), with power and signal. Then a 20m backline loom with 16 way box and power, a 10m front line loom with 8 way box and power. A bigger setup might add guitar/keys looms, either direct to the hub, or piggybacking off the drum loom.
If doing active monitors or wired IEMs you might want some return lines on those looms, or NL4 for passive monitors. 
If you're doing wireless IEMs the TXs go at the hub location.
Then you really only need 5m and 10m XLRs for mics/DIs etc.

[ANDYLASER]

I got a few of these powercon distribution boxes. They can be daisy chained, or run individually back to a central source. I put one at ther bottom of each stack and can plug in speakers and lights using standard length leads. I use 2.5mm HO7 for the long interconnecting leads. So far they have been reliable and easy to use.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32998555282.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

[Yorkie]

Simlilar but CE marked even if they aren't original Neutrik: https://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_pts_4_power_twist_splitter.htm
I don't think I'd suggest anyone invest in blue and gray powercons any more though

[ninjadingle]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

Simlilar but CE marked even if they aren't original Neutrik: https://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_pts_4_power_twist_splitter.htm
I don't think I'd suggest anyone invest in blue and gray powercons any more though

Pedantic - but that isn't a genuine CE mark. The centre line of the E shouldn't be as long as the top or bottom (shortened by 1/3). Other tell tale signs are the C and E being too close - which I think this is as well, difficult to tell off the photos. China gets away with it by calling it a "China Export" mark!

https://www.avanti-europe.ch/how-to-identify-a-correct-ce-mark/ 

[sunray]

8 hours ago, ninjadingle said:

Pedantic - but that isn't a genuine CE mark. The centre line of the E shouldn't be as long as the top or bottom (shortened by 1/3). Other tell tale signs are the C and E being too close - which I think this is as well, difficult to tell off the photos. China gets away with it by calling it a "China Export" mark!

https://www.avanti-europe.ch/how-to-identify-a-correct-ce-mark/ 

Interestingly this design:

does not conform to the designs issued to us 25 years back when we were CE marking manufactured equipment.

 

The markings we had to use are indelibly ingrained in my head:

With the centres spaced at 85%. All dimensions %'s relative to large diameter.

 

I assume the standard has changed over the years.

 

 

[sunray]

Downloaded from:  https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/ce-marking_en