School theatre sound

[sunray]

17 hours ago, Ynot said:

School situ - HIRE every time. 

Buying kit that only gets used 2 or 3 times a year is a huge waste.

Talk to local am-dram groups to see if you can get experienced techs n to help, but don't spend good money on gear that's hardly utilised.

I mentioned this to a coleague/competiter (someone I've installed a number of systems in schools with) and he raised a good point; there may or may not be funding/budget for installing kit, equally there may or may not be funding/budget for hiring kit and if there is budget available for the Christmas show there be none available for end of year show.

[sandall]

Not sure whether it applies in this case, but I remember several cases in the past where the PTA had raised lots of money & wanted the school to spend it on "something". Often this "something" would be a new sound system, usually bought from the local music shop. Not what they might actually need, seldom used, badly stored & probably eventually junked.

[tonytech]

Thanks all.

Some food for thought.

Sadly "Running away" isnt really an option... although retirement isn too far away.

T

[DavePallant]

On 6/8/2024 at 7:45 AM, sandall said:

Not sure whether it applies in this case, but I remember several cases in the past where the PTA had raised lots of money & wanted the school to spend it on "something". Often this "something" would be a new sound system, usually bought from the local music shop. Not what they might actually need, seldom used, badly stored & probably eventually junked.

Also, having helped out with PTA at my daughter's school you are never going to get them to pay for hiring equipment since the PTA are going to want to buy things that can be used well into the future. During my time there that meant that a small amount of simple lighting made more sense than sound equipment.

[DavePallant]

I have a couple of the Crown PZM mics and they work really well for tap dancers! Hanging mics over the stage are distracting and are only really facing the tops of heads from a long way away so shotguns along the front of the stage would be better. By far the best is to rent or buy radio mics but just looking up what 16 channels for a week costs to rent takes up a lot of ticket sales! Hopefully more Sennheiser G3 and G4 systems will come on the market now that digital is a little more affordable and users clear out the analogue.

[sunray]

3 hours ago, DavePallant said:

I have a couple of the Crown PZM mics and they work really well for tap dancers! Hanging mics over the stage are distracting and are only really facing the tops of heads from a long way away so shotguns along the front of the stage would be better. By far the best is to rent or buy radio mics but just looking up what 16 channels for a week costs to rent takes up a lot of ticket sales! Hopefully more Sennheiser G3 and G4 systems will come on the market now that digital is a little more affordable and users clear out the analogue.

That's strange, I found the Crown PCC160's weren't the solution at a talent event I put some C451's in (could have been AT8033's) just for tap dancing act.

[sunray]

3 hours ago, DavePallant said:

Also, having helped out with PTA at my daughter's school you are never going to get them to pay for hiring equipment since the PTA are going to want to buy things that can be used well into the future.

That is very understandable.

 

3 hours ago, DavePallant said:

 During my time there that meant that a small amount of simple lighting made more sense than sound equipment.

That also makes sense but I'd say an element of age groups kicks in, senior schools I think would veer towards sound.

[Jivemaster]

Non-exam activities in schools depend on (usually) ONE member of staff. In my school, the No. 2 maths teacher was a great keyboards and organ player and restored his own Compton theatre organ. He and the (classical) music teacher worked the music for shows  until No 2 maths moved 20 miles to be head of maths.

You have to realise that putting in a 16hour day interests people UNTIL they get offered head of department elsewhere.

If kit isn't screwed down then hire it in.

[Ynot]

6 hours ago, DavePallant said:

.... you are never going to get them to pay for hiring equipment since the PTA are going to want to buy things that can be used well into the future. 

Not always true - this will depend on the school, and how they deal with events on the stage.

Over the years I've helped out (and occasionally been paid to do so) at several schools who have een happy to fund rental costs for productions/dance events and have taken in anything from ETC LX desks and LED/movers to radio mics and pyro.

Never say never. 🙂

[Ynot]

2 hours ago, sunray said:

That's strange, I found the Crown PCC160's weren't the solution at a talent event I put some C451's in (could have been AT8033's) just for tap dancing act.

I've had a lot of success with the PCC160 but as with all things you need to position them right, with adequate padding to prevent direct pickup of stage noise, and balance them well with other mics in use.

Too many people seem to discard them as an option without doing the work

 

[sandall]

9 hours ago, Ynot said:

Too many people seem to discard them as an option without doing the work

Trouble is there's seldom time to experiment. If there is a Tech it's mostly taken up with entrances, exits & props. Then it's time to vacate the space 'cos someone else needs it or the hire time has run out. Either way you've lost the "talent".

[J Pearce]

9 hours ago, Ynot said:

I've had a lot of success with the PCC160 but as with all things you need to position them right, with adequate padding to prevent direct pickup of stage noise, and balance them well with other mics in use.

Too many people seem to discard them as an option without doing the work

 

I also have had much success with PCC160s, probably more success than I've had with old-school shotgun mics which I find phasey and usually the rear lobe ends up pointing at something horribly noisy. The PCC160s also look a lot smarter and don't get knocked around so easily.
I've had good success of late with hiding DPA4099s and DPA4061s in set pieces/props etc. on shows where we're not radio mic'ing. It's a good option for getting a mic further onstage - we've even done this with wireless mics, but fitted to the prop/set piece rather than the actor.

For musicals you can't really beat having a mic on the actor. For plays ambient mic'ing can work well, but it needs proper vocal coaching and warmups etc.

[Robin D]

Yep. Been there many times. 

Supposedly running a 'tech' (ha ha) when advised that the hall was now to be used for PE because the weather is bad with zero notice. So the kids in the show get sent back to class. This was on the first show night! There is a ranking in importance of certain subjects in my experience and performance comes near the bottom of the list. I think possibly 'sport' is top of the list for some reason. Had kids pulled out of rehearsals because they are need for a sports team! Also had key players pulled out or after school rehearsals because they hadn't done their homework or had been given detention. 

Agreed with one school to rig on a Sunday. Caretaker let us in 9ish. An hour later and all these people of all ages start piling in. Turns out that it was a church who were hiring it while their building was being refurbished. I had two bar's down, scaff tower up and stuff everywhere. Was able to clear enough to let them continue by pushing the scaff tower into a corner and just piling everything else underneath it as well as taking the bars up. They were very good about it despite starting their service at least 15 minutes late.

Spoke to the caretaker who had been told the hire was only for x number of weeks and that had expired the week before. The office hadn't told him the hire had been extended. Actually a good job we were there else neither would the caretaker and the building would have been locked. Still meant I was still there 2 or more hours longer than expected. 

 

 

[sunray]

27 minutes ago, J Pearce said:

I also have had much success with PCC160s, probably more success than I've had with old-school shotgun mics which I find phasey and usually the rear lobe ends up pointing at something horribly noisy. The PCC160s also look a lot smarter and don't get knocked around so easily.
I've had good success of late with hiding DPA4099s and DPA4061s in set pieces/props etc. on shows where we're not radio mic'ing. It's a good option for getting a mic further onstage - we've even done this with wireless mics, but fitted to the prop/set piece rather than the actor.

For musicals you can't really beat having a mic on the actor. For plays ambient mic'ing can work well, but it needs proper vocal coaching and warmups etc.

I don't think shotguns work well for large casts such as musicals/panto etc (I'll cower down and get me coat) as they create what I can only describe as a hot spot and using multiples produces the peaks and troughs as a performer moves through those, also if being picked up by 2 mics at different distances I understand the description 'phasey'

I've used PCC160's in all sorts of venues and situations (one of my 'tricks' is to wedge them between suspended ceiling bars and the tiles) and love them to bits. I used to do a 'question time' sort of event 3 times a year and laid cables into the 3.5m high suspended ceiling for 8 mics and run them into a Gentner automatic mixer, primarily to foldback monitors to the panel and echocancelled from the main PA. I used to install so many of them I'd buy them in a multibox of 24 and used to have a hire stock of about a dozen.

I agree they have to be isolated from stage noise (hence my previous comment about the brick wall) but some stages are so lively, and I find many school stages fit in this category, that there is simply too much noise being radiated by it.

It would have never occurred to me to use a 4099 in this sort of application, I've only had (a little) experience with using them for brass instruments which they do so well I wouldn't have thought to try them elsewhere.

[J Pearce]

Veering off topic, but there's not much I won't point a 4099 at. They make great lectern mics too. Very popular with sound recordists for 'plant mics' and hiding in car sun visors etc.