New Dimmers For Halogen Lights

[julz]

Hi, I over see / look after / am in charge of lighting for an amateur dramatics group.

We currently have a dimming setup which comprises of a couple of Strand analogue 6 way dimmers (24 pin Harling output!), a pulsar 6 way analogue dimmer with 5 amp sockets as output (two per channel) and power distribution of 2 x 32Amp inputs, all housed in a large heavy  blue metal box.

These are controlled via a zero 88 demux so we are at least partially into the digital age and we use a zero 88 jester desk as control. Our lights are predominantly non-led halogen fixtures such as Strand quartets and of course we dim onstage lights such as table and wall lights etc. There are two iwb’s each with Socopex connectors, one over the audience and one at the front of the stage. For our sins, we currently use 5amp plugs and sockets for our lighting equipment.

We wish to replace the large dimmer box as it is very heavy and unwieldy. It would also be good to go fully DMX and ditch the demux. However, looking at things, it would appear that we might have missed the market as 6 way DMX dimmers seem to be going out of fashion or at least become very expensive and provide hot power which we do not need.

My question is, what would you recommend? My ideal would be two 6 way DMX controlled dimmers in flight cases, each with Socapex outputs to control our two iwb’s. In addition we would need one or two other 6 way dimmers to control our other lights with some way to bridge between changing all of our plugs and cable to a more well used standard than 5 amp.

We also have power constraints. Supply is via two single phase 32amp supplies with a possibility of another 32amp single phase supply. There is no chance of having a three phase supply as we use a village hall for performances and they have investigated and determined that it would be infeasible to change our current setup.

I had though that we would be able to use zero 88 beta pack three’s but they appear to be like hens teeth.

Any thoughts?

Julz.

[themadhippy]

Quote

Any thoughts?

if wot you got works why change it? replace the harlings with socas, 5A's fine why change it,only big change i would make is move it all to a flight case with wheels

[sandall]

A few quick thoughts. You don't need Betapack-3s. Betapack-2s were DMX & analogue & it's easy enough to get 6-way retrofit demux units for both Zero88 & Stand analogue packs, which opens up your choice on the fleabay front.  You're unlikely to find packs with Socapex outlets (mostly 2x 15A per channel), so you may need to make up some sets of adaptor leads. Do you need to flight-case? - my Betapacks (mostly used for quick in & out one-nighters) just have simple carry-handles, & have never suffered damage.

Edited June 24 by sandall

[adam2]

I agree that "if it works, why change it." Halogen lighting in general has a rather limited future life, so it seems a waste to renew or upgrade existing dimming equipment.

If this has not been done recently, an electrical safety examination might be prudent. If required this should be done by some experienced in theatre type electrics and not by a local builder nor by a PAT test monkey.  If you need recommendations, try asking other local venues. 

[kgallen]

My main venue has analogue Betapack 1 and Betapack 2 plus a Zero88 Demux. Such dimmers regularly come up on eBay and if you’re patient you won’t need to pay much money for them. Some 6mm or 10mm H07 TRS and appropriate ceeform plugs and you’re sorted. Whilst lamps will become an issue in the coming years, the T18/T25/T26 your Quartets or Preludes use are a common lamp so I suspect (and hope) will be some of the last to disappear. Also 15A plugs can be had second hand for sensible money.

Whilst there is no doubt LED is here, in the amateur world the funds just aren’t there for decent kit.

Whilst lamps are going to become an issue you’ll otherwise be able to keep your Quartets and some Betapacks going pretty much forever. Not so with LED kit. So my advice as someone who’s in the same space, is go for it. 
 

Something like this is a gift, there’s nothing wrong with these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315465077877?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=23h-VhKnSNe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=nsjPidUXSvu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited June 24 by kgallen

[AncientLight]

Take a look at the Anytronics range of wall-mount dimmers, includes 5A versions.

[J Pearce]

You could pick up some good quality ex rental kit very cheaply, as most hire cos have a pile of dimmers they don’t send out much any more.

I’d probably install fuses or breakers in your 5A patchbay and then change the tails. A good sparks with entertainment experience could create a smart solution.

[David Ripley]

Given the lack of manufacturers of TH lamps and their unavailability generally are you throwing good money after bad here

The fact that the death of Tungsten lamps is imminent has not filtered down the food chain yet but will impact these situations as much as large and professional organisations.

You should be planning to get away from dimmers/TH so it might be worth getting by now to start your investment in the future. It won't be cheap but best to start now rather than leaving it until you can't relamp your lanterns

THE DEATH OF TUNGSTEN leaflet for approval to print.pdf

[Bryson]

Sidebar:  I had a hell of a time recently finding anyone who still made rack-mounted dimmer packs for the North American market, but found that in 240v world, there were many choices (including ETC Alex dimmers that I had never heard of!).  I wonder what that says about the comparative adoption of LED fixtures in those markets?

 

(Yes, it's weird that I needed new dimmers, its a long story.)

[timsabre]

21 hours ago, David Ripley said:

Given the lack of manufacturers of TH lamps and their unavailability generally are you throwing good money after bad here

500.61 kB · 

I know you are campaigning on this subject but I think you are wildly overstating the case here. TH theatre lamps in common sizes are still generally available and there are no signs that this is going to end in the near future. For Amdram groups, keeping their stock of tungsten lighting going as long as possible is often the only option and using cheap 2nd hand dimmers is a good way to do that. LED theatre fixtures are mostly still getting cheaper all the time so every year you keep your tungsten going, the LED alternative gets a bit cheaper.

I did a show in a pro theatre last week and 90% of their lighting is still tungsten. (750W source 4, 1000W Ramas, 650W acclaims, PAR64 mostly)

Edited June 26 by timsabre

[David Ripley]

Hi Tim

As far as I'm aware, Tungsram, the last people to make T series lamps in any quantity ceased trading about 18months ago. Although Osram say they are still manufacturing lamps they are CP lamps for photography.

PARs are long gone, so what is available now is a dwindling resource. I'm not saying everyone needs to change tomorrow but we need to start building awareness amongst all users that TH lamps are a finite resource, they are no longer economical to make and I don't see any one likely to enter the market to replace Phillips, Osram etc

I can't actually remember the last time I saw a new TH Lantern announced so the writing is definitely on the wall.

[kgallen]

Stage Electrics list Osram T-class lamps. e.g.

500W T18/T25: https://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/View/24280/osram-64670-t25-t18-lamp-240v-500w-gy9-5-base

650W T26/T27: https://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/View/24208/osram-64718-t27-t26-lamp-240v-650w-gy9-5-base

1000W T11/T19: https://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/View/24285/osram-64744-t19-t11-lamp-240v-1000w-gx9-5-base

1200W T29: https://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/View/24289/osram-64752-t29-lamp-240v-1200w-gx9-5-base

The prices are indeed creeping up over time.

Previously they stocked the GE Tungsram lamps which per above are no longer produced.

[AncientLight]

18 hours ago, David Ripley said:

Hi Tim

As far as I'm aware, Tungsram, the last people to make T series lamps in any quantity ceased trading about 18months ago. Although Osram say they are still manufacturing lamps they are CP lamps for photography.

PARs are long gone, so what is available now is a dwindling resource. I'm not saying everyone needs to change tomorrow but we need to start building awareness amongst all users that TH lamps are a finite resource, they are no longer economical to make and I don't see any one likely to enter the market to replace Phillips, Osram etc

I can't actually remember the last time I saw a new TH Lantern announced so the writing is definitely on the wall.

Osram still manufacture the common T class lamps, T19, T25, T26, T27, T29, and several companies have had batches of CP60/61/62 made. We at AC normally  have stocks of all of these including large quantities of CP60/61/62

[julz]

Thanks for your replies I will look into them all. LEDs are not really an option at the moment so some solution to lugging our current dimmer around needs to be found (none of us are getting younger). I've noticed that the price of t26 bulbs has about doubled recently although there still seems to be a good supply, time to stockpile I guess.

During my searches I came across the Anytronics branded dimmers as mentioned above; does anyone have an opinion on them? Their website claims they still manufacture six channel dimmers but they haven't responded to my inquiry.

[julz]

Also, I have found some ETC Smartpacks which might fit the bill (Socapex outputs!). Again, your pearls of wisdom would be appreciated.

 

https://secondhand-sound-and-lighting-equipment.co.uk/listing/89522/5x-etc-12-ch-smartpack-derbyshire